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Seraphic8X
21-06-2003, 10:33 PM
Why not put a max lives option into SvenCoop? That way, people will have an incentive to stay alive and make maps far more challenging, instead of being able to respawn infinately.

cscarlet
22-06-2003, 07:00 AM
because thats not in serious sam or any other coop, it would be stupid because i could just reconnect and continue

evangelion unit 0
22-06-2003, 07:36 AM
please dont make sven too much like cs

Puchi
22-06-2003, 08:26 AM
what about the option of max lives e.g. in the .cfg of the map.
on some it would be interesting to have one or two lives and it make the map more interesting, you've got to take care on not dying too fast, and you can't just rush trough the maps either
if everyone's death, the map ends automaticly as "mission failed".
that's something new as mentioned in another thread (EDIT: Arena Maps: The Right Way) to make a walkthrough-map more intresting to play.
maybe an entity which ends the map when 50% of the players are death or something

edit: please, not on stadium or garghunt one live, that's stupid ;)

evangelion unit 0
22-06-2003, 08:35 AM
but then when i run outta lives i start to spam and get kicked or banned from every server i like

Puchi
22-06-2003, 08:42 AM
mhmm..
that's your personal problem :p

Sven Viking
22-06-2003, 09:47 AM
We have plans in this direction, though not necessarily for this... umm, can't say too much yet.

Anyway, though, don't worry -- we don't intend to ever set up play-for-a-minute-then-spectate-for-a-minute-style gameplay. I don't forsee anyone ever having to wait too long to respawn in SvenCo-op... unless they'd just been typing "kill" over and over, or something :).

osidio
22-06-2003, 10:15 AM
Max DOES live. Hes in #svencoop like all the time.

Solid shadow
22-06-2003, 10:38 AM
What if the player has a amount of lives (how many decided by admin). When he loses all his lives he have to wait a certain amount of time (also decided by admin) before he can respawn with new lives. Or you could make it so that if he loses all hes lives he have to wait for other players to kill a certain amount of monsters before he can respawn. You could also make it so that you only respawn if the enemy that killed you is dead. But then there will be some problems if you're killed by a func_tank entity or if you commit suicide, but that might be able to fix.
For example: You gets killed by a alien_slave. To be allowed to respawn, your teamies either have to kill the alien_slave that killed you or they have to kill a amount of other monsters.

This might be complicated to code, doesnt know so much about how it works. :p

Pyroclasm
22-06-2003, 11:02 AM
Respawning after a certain number of monsters are dead would be kinda bad in some maps...

Examples:
1) There are 2 players on a server and the next enemy to kill is a Gargantua. It kills Player 2, which was the only one that had explosives, and there aren't anymore available. They can't proceed since Player 2 won't spawn until the Gargantua is dead, which is impossible to kill without the explosives.

2) All monsters in the map are dead, and the 2 players arrive near a set of 2 switches, but a gap is between them and the set of switches. Player 2 jumps to the other side, but Player 1 doesn't make it and falls down the pit and dies. Then it ain't possible to continue on, since 2 players are needed, and the other won't spawn since there are no more monsters.

Those reasons and more are enough not to implement that Spawn System.

Solid shadow
22-06-2003, 11:37 AM
That was an EXAMPLE! You could probably make it diffrent in some way. No monsters, make the dead player respawn after 1 minute or somethng like that. The respawn time doesnt have to be long, just make it long enough so players dont want to die. The killing monster/monsters idea might just be a way do speed thing up. Either the monster/monsters gets killed or you have to wait the full time. Ok?

Sven Viking
22-06-2003, 09:46 PM
You've got some of the idea. Afraid I can't post details, though, or some other mod'll probably steal the system before we're able to use it :).

Honking Donkey
22-06-2003, 10:15 PM
But then think of it this way as well....

Mappers will be much more concience about their maps and wont get so monster happy on things....

Mugsy2002
23-06-2003, 12:08 AM
Max lives is not a bad idea, nor is it stupid, it just makes players more careful and actually gives people to reluctantly WORK TOGETHER, which people dont do in sven co-op servers regularly.

i mean, having unlimited lives is just plain, makes alot of people have a chance of suicide bomb or something (or running in with Uzi's)


make it like Enemy territory. in the midle of playing. youll have the around the same amount everybody will have, instead of somebody having 9 lives when the everybody hos been workin' thier asses off have 2.

RollingSkull
23-06-2003, 09:55 AM
Serious Sam co-op does have lives, but they give you a lot on the servers that enable it. And Half-Life is not Serious Sam.

NOLF2 co-op is pretty well balanced. Most servers run it on stupid hard, so players have to sneak, snipe, or die, and dying forces you to wait a while before respawning without any good weapons. And the weapons have to be hunted down or snatched off enemy dead bodies.

Unfortunately, getting 4 people to an exit proves to be an insurmountable task.

Monster Hunt for Unreal Tournament had lives. But nobody ever played that online and it was pretty much Serious Sam co-op with Unreal Monsters.

I think a death penalty system is needed, but lives MAY not be an answer. It would have to be a very context sensitive system. However, most maps are designed to be death fests requiring MANY players at the end, so I think the mod is stuck with the infinite lives system.

Solid shadow
23-06-2003, 12:58 PM
Hehe, i see you point Rollingskull. It would be rather irritating
dying over and over when you meet a garg or something like that. Theres also lots of other maps with the highest difficult skill ex. Jailbreak.
You probably have to use some other death penalty system.

Field Medic
23-06-2003, 01:51 PM
I think the max lives thing is far too extreme. (And imagine the players/admins that could abuse it)

I was thinking about the issue for a little bit and came up with a different idea:

Since everyone is so indebted to getting such a high score, why not make it so your score is reset if you die? Or at least suck away a bunch of points. That way the players who truely care about score and finishing the map alive, will be the 'best rated' players.

You could also set a ratio, ie after 1 life, the point loss multiplier is 1x, ie you lose 2^1, or two points. At 2^10, you are talking 1024 points, or just reset the score.

I kind of like the idea. But if the scores are completely removed, then we should see how the coop works out.

Solid shadow
23-06-2003, 03:23 PM
Hey i got a good idea. Why not replace the score screen with more like a statistics screen. On the statistics screen you can see how much health and armour each player has instead of score and deaths. You could also add some kind of signs that tells you what the player do ex. fighting, moving, chating, crying for medic etc. You could then see which players need help and so on. You can put more things on the screen i suppose but im to tired to think more.

Even if you dont replace the score screen you could at least add a statistics like screen for it self. Could be nice indeed.

Mugsy2002
23-06-2003, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by [Swe]Sneaker
Hey i got a good idea. Why not replace the score screen with more like a statistics screen. On the statistics screen you can see how much health and armour each player has instead of score and deaths. You could also add some kind of signs that tells you what the player do ex. fighting, moving, chating, crying for medic etc. You could then see which players need help and so on. You can put more things on the screen i suppose but im to tired to think more.

Even if you dont replace the score screen you could at least add a statistics like screen for it self. Could be nice indeed.


sorry, but the statistics screen idea was already issued and it seems to be a good idea that MIGHT go into the mod.


i have an idea, make it like Wolfenstein (RTCW that is), make an reinforcements system, so if you gotta wait 20 seconds, WAIT 20 seconds, and have the HL camera on to the survivors until you get back.

and making it like NOLF 2 is a good idea, except for at least getting an amount of players onto the endpoint, BUT!, i think there should be a thing where the more players there are, the less hits you can take.

MedievalManIII
24-06-2003, 12:40 PM
i have an idea, wut about u gain lives by slaying a certain amount of monsters or by finding a "Life" (as in Super Mario Bros.)another way is regenerating them by waiting in spectator mode. another way is if only one guy is left, he can choose who gets to come back to life to help him pull 2 switches, fight bad-ass bosses or sumthing.

DarkMasterOz
24-06-2003, 12:44 PM
Wouldn't it just be easier to just share lives, so if admin set it to "5" lives, you'd share it between each of ya, so if one person died 5 times then the others wont have any lives left.

Hope that made sense!

Shakeno
24-06-2003, 01:16 PM
I was thinking about the idea of a MAX number of lives. That idea is nice for some maps, making them realistic. I mean the mission maps. Yeah, putting the MAXLIVES option in the CFG is great, because you can change it if you dont like :D (I'm joking, but useful for the servers that want on every map that option or disable it).

About the idea of respawning... is not cool, because, then is something like the respawn max time :wtf:

If you wan't to know my suggest (I think no, but I hope yes :P) I would like to make this, like other ideas:

An editable number of lives in the map's CFG (0=unlimited---1 or more=number of lives)

A section in the scoreboard (Telling number of lives left, if you loose all, you donĀ“t respawn, and you will become a spectator)

And if everyone dies, mission end whit message: Mission failed.

That idea would be nice.

Mugsy2002
24-06-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by MedievalManIII
i have an idea, wut about u gain lives by slaying a certain amount of monsters or by finding a "Life" (as in Super Mario Bros.)another way is regenerating them by waiting in spectator mode. another way is if only one guy is left, he can choose who gets to come back to life to help him pull 2 switches, fight bad-ass bosses or sumthing.


Sounds like a good idea, but will rpolly lead to arguememnts between players like


D00dm@n46: YOU STOLE MY KILL YOU FAG
Mugsy:hey, take it easy asshole, it's just a game
D00dm@n46:but i have no lives, he stole my kill!

]SK[
25-06-2003, 06:17 PM
What other coop games are out there, we have sc and serious same, any others?

Seraphic8X
25-06-2003, 09:25 PM
For veterans of RTCW, you might remember playing on some servers that enable a set number of lives before you're dead for the round. Some servers would let you have 10... and it would be a while before you'd be out of the game... if at all.

My suggestion is just to try to put something in to enforce teamwork and not just ramboing into rooms spraying as much lead/explosives until you are dead.

evangelion unit 0
26-06-2003, 11:13 AM
but rushing is what i do best if you start this up then ill have to fall back on my (rusty) sniping skills

Field Medic
26-06-2003, 04:10 PM
As most people have assumed, I am against this, not because I am a bad player that rushes into combat (I rarely see more then 10 deaths in one mission), but because I remember all those times when I went out of my way to accomplish my mission that always ended up in the death, not to mention all the times I saved other players at my own cost.

Then there are servers where they don't work together, so it takes you 15 deaths in order to hit a switch/dodge ichys and the like.

Taking away points for dying will seperate the players going for score and the players looking to play the damn game. You know the drill.

DarkMasterOz
26-06-2003, 07:00 PM
Well i must admit having max lives would improve the team work, cos people ive seen just rush out and get killed instantly trying to storm through the levels, i've even done it mi sen. Adding something like this in will make people think twice about rushing in to combat and it'll make the whole co-op thing more realistic.
Because when was last time army did owt like that.

Seraphic8X
26-06-2003, 09:30 PM
I think you are missing the point. Max lives means more than one life, meaning that it isnt CS. It would be up to the server admin or mapper to make it however high they wished. A fair amount would be three or five, in my opinion.

DarkMasterOz
27-06-2003, 06:05 AM
I know, i was juse using 1 life each as an example, but yeh max lives would be great fun and will make the game, well... more fun.