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Mad Gonesy
02-09-2003, 05:05 PM
This update might do more harm than good, but here you go anyways:

http://www.svencoop.com

Enjoy :) Hope it doesn't make you want 3.0 so much that it hurts.

Panzerfaust
02-09-2003, 05:14 PM
At least now we know what the new weapons are :)

Nice manual BTW :)

(Wish I was a PT....)

Rugal
02-09-2003, 05:15 PM
Great.

FailSafe
02-09-2003, 05:18 PM
-gasp- -gasp- -wheeeeze- YAY ITS THE SNIPER RIFLE...thing...yay, sc3.0 soon

Lt.Chicken
02-09-2003, 05:20 PM
Dammit i was looking forward to a public beta... but noooo! Its a private beta that lets the public hit "server info" and drool at the few 3.0 beta servers out there... anyway i guess you decided to scratch the nomad?

Panzerfaust
02-09-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Lt.Chicken
Dammit i was looking forward to a public beta... but noooo! Its a private beta that lets the public hit "server info" and drool at the few 3.0 beta servers out there... anyway i guess you decided to scratch the nomad?

"While many of you will moan that the Nomad Sniper rifle is not in this version, we feel that the addition of the M40a1 Sniper Rifle will make up for this."

:)

Felix
02-09-2003, 05:31 PM
If the timeline that mad jonesy previewed. The next 3 weeks are beta testing and then the 3.0 will be released. Before Hl2. Sweet we have some time to play it. Go team go !

R@lph VViggum
02-09-2003, 05:57 PM
*starts hyperventilating*

MedievalManIII
02-09-2003, 06:41 PM
i wanna beta test... *sigh* 3 weeks to wait...

MutantMFM
02-09-2003, 06:46 PM
Nice job on the manual I like how the pictures look. Also I'm glad to see 3.0 is almost finished before HL2 is released. :)

Fortune2
02-09-2003, 06:53 PM
Looks good. Also, is the 3 Weeks thing for real? And didn't they move back the HL2 Release till like XMas ishkinda.

SharkMan
02-09-2003, 07:05 PM
finall a built in grappling hook, now people will have some other way to get into my cupboards, because they suck at going down on a ladder.

Uncle
02-09-2003, 11:45 PM
Is that grapple thing for dealing with blockers too?

slippery
03-09-2003, 03:00 AM
who cares bout the nomad, its basically the same as the op4 one *rolls eyes*

Fortune2
03-09-2003, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Uncle
Is that grapple thing for dealing with blockers too?

Unless you can somehow grapple over them, I wouldn't think so.

Sph!nx
03-09-2003, 05:56 AM
Well the weapons are a nice adition ... I am more enthausiast about the new mappers features :D

Just relax and it will be released in a couple of weeks.
Ppl can moan all they want, I just want a good game and I am ready to wait for it.

MedievalManIII
03-09-2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Uncle
Is that grapple thing for dealing with blockers too?

u do have the crowbar to pull blockers or the votekill command...

Vanca
03-09-2003, 01:12 PM
hmmm this sounds good. I especially like the barnacle part

Sgt.Leon
03-09-2003, 02:42 PM
i want to beta test too!

cscarlet
03-09-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by MedievalManIII


u do have the crowbar to pull blockers or the votekill command...
in my experience with the grabbler it eats what its attached to, like my engineer i needed to blow a door up so i got stuck and had to start from an older saved game

Sgt. Jason9811
03-09-2003, 03:19 PM
Id like to c in 3.0 is that both the magnum and the 9mm can be "Dual" ooo man that would be sweet! :D

Sgt.Leon
03-09-2003, 03:36 PM
M134 Minigun will use the same ammo as the 9mmar/uzi/9mmhandgun?

Sven Viking
03-09-2003, 03:43 PM
It uses SAW ammo

Sgt.Leon
03-09-2003, 03:59 PM
arghhh i use the w_saw_ammo for w_chainammo, i think i will change some models...

tweak
03-09-2003, 07:07 PM
The monster will attack the hostile you are currently targetting with your crosshair Very cool!

You can change to another weapon from the minigun by just dropping the minigun using the "drop" command.Does this mean if you're using the minigun you can't use anyother weapons until you drop it?

Sven Viking
03-09-2003, 08:28 PM
Yup... the minigun's really heavy. Heavier than all the other 26 guns you're carrying combined (apparently).

tweak
03-09-2003, 09:47 PM
Very cool! :D
3.0 sounds so cool, I can't wait for it to come out!

slippery
04-09-2003, 03:44 AM
hmm i wonder which will appear 1st? 3.0 or hl2?

Aurora
04-09-2003, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Sven Viking
It uses SAW ammo

Whoa, will there be SAW too? :eek: :cool:

cscarlet
04-09-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by slippery
hmm i wonder which will appear 1st? 3.0 or hl2?
who cares, svencoop will is currently my top for wanting to try out first purely because coops dont require as much stress as singleplayers

Uncle
04-09-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Sven Viking
Yup... the minigun's really heavy. Heavier than all the other 26 guns you're carrying combined (apparently).

Does that mean that it's 26 times as powerful too?

cscarlet
04-09-2003, 03:09 PM
compair a hwgrunt to a grunt
hwgrunt whilst firing and ur in the way = slaughtered
grunt whilst firing = some time to react to kill the grunt

Commando
04-09-2003, 04:22 PM
The minigun is a very tactical weapon, the time it takes to wind up coupled with the 'spray and pray' nature means you really need another player healing you as well as some other players to distract enemy fire. However it is great against a group of monsters.

Sgt. Jason9811
04-09-2003, 04:26 PM
And the bad thing is you waste alotta ammo FAST but powerful

Uncle
04-09-2003, 09:01 PM
Hope it's not too soon to ask:

1. How much ammo does the minigun actually have?
2. What's the default damage?
3. What's the rate of fire?
4. Will it put the Egon to shame?
6. What selection numbers are being used for the sniper rifle and grapple?
7. Will the sniper have the same 15 bullet max. limit and 5 bullet magazine like in Op4?

Sven Viking
04-09-2003, 10:37 PM
1. - 500 default, 1000 max.
2/3 - High.
4. - I think it's fairly comparable to the egon in terms of damage.
6. - 6 and 1
7. - Yup.

Kain
05-09-2003, 09:13 AM
26 weapons? i only count 14 in HL, 18 in SC 2.1, 21 in SC 3.0 so where did those 5 extra weapons mysteroisly come from?

Sven Viking
05-09-2003, 09:54 AM
Umm, SvenCoopRPG2!

Actually, I was just exaggerating for effect (you can carry all those weapons around without any effect, but only one minigun, and it slows you down. Not exactly realistic, but it works).

cscarlet
05-09-2003, 12:29 PM
unless they are in a small corridor with a massive line behind them wanting to get past, methinks a massive crowbar mosh fest would insue

Uncle
05-09-2003, 12:58 PM
I am assuming there is still room for changes before 3.0 goes final, so..... I'm gonna start bitching before it's too late!

15 bullets to snipe with? Cmon, let's have something like 30-50 extra bullets. How big are those bullets, I mean, like those bulky crossbow clips, you get to carry around 50 bolts, and you can carry 5 big rpg's with no problem. So sniper bullets which are more compact should be easier to carry around right? If you're worried about ammo hogging, then let each sniper ammo item give 10 bullets or more, should be enough for everyone.

Besides, I think the default Op4 sniper uses about 3 bullets to kill one voltigore, and this is Sven Coop... more hp, more quantity etc, making 15 bullet capacities quite pointless. So please give us more bullets! The monsters deserve it!


And the minigun.. if it is really only about as good as the egon, I think that makes it less useful. If I were to put both weapons on a map, players would still go with the Egon coz of the limitations on the minigun. I know the skl file lets mappers change the damage, etc. but I think the minigun should by default be stronger than the egon. It's about time the egon was dethroned as HL's king-of-the-hill. Unless there is some other special advantage to the minigun like more ammo or wide volume of fire.

Mad Gonesy
05-09-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Uncle
15 bullets to snipe with? Cmon, let's have something like 30-50 extra bullets. How big are those bullets, I mean, like those bulky crossbow clips, you get to carry around 50 bolts, and you can carry 5 big rpg's with no problem. So sniper bullets which are more compact should be easier to carry around right? If you're worried about ammo hogging, then let each sniper ammo item give 10 bullets or more, should be enough for everyone.

BADDDD idea, the idea isn't to let everyone sit and snipe all day. Its to let them use it as a support weapon. Giving everyone fuck-loads of ammo would make them lazy.


And the minigun.. if it is really only about as good as the egon, I think that makes it less useful. If I were to put both weapons on a map, players would still go with the Egon coz of the limitations on the minigun. I know the skl file lets mappers change the damage, etc. but I think the minigun should by default be stronger than the egon. It's about time the egon was dethroned as HL's king-of-the-hill. Unless there is some other special advantage to the minigun like more ammo or wide volume of fire.

Sorry, but you haven't played using the Minigun or the Sniper Rifle so you really can't comment on them at this stage. The minigun is far more useful than the Egon in some situations (spray and pray) and less useful (for example taking on a sniper) in other situations. The Egon is a kind of sell-out weapon, so most mappers now ignore it.

Besides, whats the point of filling a game with lots of overpowered weapons? It'll just make it dull and discourage players working together.

The Beta testers are having lots of fun and have no problems with the balancing. I'm sure you will too.

tweak
05-09-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Mad Jonesy


BADDDD idea, the idea isn't to let everyone sit and snipe all day. Its to let them use it as a support weapon. Giving everyone fuck-loads of ammo would make them lazy.



Sorry, but you haven't played using the Minigun or the Sniper Rifle so you really can't comment on them at this stage. The minigun is far more useful than the Egon in some situations (spray and pray) and less useful (for example taking on a sniper) in other situations. The Egon is a kind of sell-out weapon, so most mappers now ignore it.

Besides, whats the point of filling a game with lots of overpowered weapons? It'll just make it dull and discourage players working together.

The Beta testers are having lots of fun and have no problems with the balancing. I'm sure you will too. I concur.


I think the egon was created to be like a BFG. Like in Doom, Quake, etc.

Uncle
05-09-2003, 11:22 PM
Yeah, I know I haven't played it yet.. :) I'm just the usual "concerned" gamer, worrying that the next version of th e game won't be to my liking. (OK< OK, I know SC isn't made just for me! It's freeware and I'm not paying a thing for it! No need to flame me on that point)

But I don't agree about the part where "the idea isn't to let everyone sit and snipe all day". Firstly, most maps are walkthrough, you CANNOT camp. Second, if the ammo is strategically placed away from the action, you'll still need to go back for it, even if it's an arena map. Finally, the crossbow comes with lots of ammo, and despite being a useful sniping weapon, isn't being used much. 357 also starts off with 125 bullets on some maps' cfg, (some sort of bug, I think, 36 is supposed to be the max. bullets you can carry), and same deal, it doesn't result in camping, in fact players tend to be more aggresive. I think there is no such thing as camping in SC. Never heard of it, never saw it happen.

It is possible for someone with lots of sniper ammo to lay back and fire from behind the team, so he generally doesn't get hurt, while scoring lots of kills. But that's good teamplay, isn't it? Compared to everyone charging with assault weapons. If the guy sniping like that is doing a good job, his team ought to be happy about it. I do see this happen with the 357, but it has never been a problem with other players (In fact, I do it myself, esp on durga, and I don't recall anyone getting annoyed with that). The solution though, is the same one used for mp5 grenades and rpg's and Egons and those kickass weapons; don't give too much ammo, and don't put the ammo nearby. Simple! A low ammo limit will also solve that, but that is less flexible because now I cannot opt for high ammo capacity. What if I had a map designed all around the sniper rifle? Or even just a player class (like one of those in svencooprpg2)? Cmon, a sniper class is almost natural, but what use is that class when it's got just 15 bullets? I know it may not seem like a big issue, and the game will be fine with the 15 bullet limit; it's just that it also limits something I had been planning to do (and I'm sure others had something like that in mind too). Is there any way a mapper can modify that limit? Like set it in the cfg file, or maybe give it the same bug the 357 has, where the ammo can start higher than the theoretical limit if the mapper wants to set it that way? I don't mind the 15 limit if there are such workarounds.


You're right about the Egon, most maps don't use it, but I do see mappers using it maliciously. It's to players what cheese is to mice. You guys know the Egon trap at minotaurmaze? There's this other map too (forgot it's name) where grills suddenly close to prevent you from taking the Egon. And then these turrets start coming out of the ceiling.... but no, I do not agree that there is no point to having lots of heavy weapons, and I certainly don't agree that it'll be dull. Depends on the map, some maps are just meant for them. If the monsters deserve it, they oughtta get it. I know exactly what kind of map needs them... my maps! I think it's better for coop maps to have a plentiful & diverse range of weapons, weak and strong.. that way, I can put pitdrones and voltigores together, and I know that the players have big guns for the big un's and small guns for the little un's. I have never seen anyone use an Egon on a headcrab, not even the noobs, and not even on osprey or svencooprpg2 which are about the only popular maps that have Egons. No problem, I think, having heavy weapons around, players should know which weapons go with which monsters.

I'm glad to know that the minigun is a spray-and-pray weapon; all I was wondering was whether it'll be a weapon in it's own right or whether it'll be "the Egon-wannabe". If it's different, that's exactly how it ought to be, so no more bitching from me on the minigun. Good job, I know you guys are doing your best. I look forward to having as much fun as the beta testers too.

PS. Whoops, such a long post! Well, now you know I care about Sven Coop. Wonder why I was too stingy to donate then....

Sven Viking
06-09-2003, 05:45 AM
Re: Sniper rifle: It's about twice as powerful in SvenCo-op as in OpFor, so you could think of it as having 30 bullets (plus 10 in the rifle), and firing two at once :).

About the minigun: If the Minigun is an "Egon wannabe", so are the Glock and Snarks. As you say, co-op maps should have a diverse range of weapons, both weak and powerful. The minigun is different from all other weapons in the game, and fills in the gap between the Egon and all other weapons (i.e. it's more powerful than everything else, but players can't run about circle-strafing and killing Gargs in ten seconds flat. In this way, mappers can provide the weapon to players in situations where they do not with the players to run about circle-strafing and killing Gargs in ten seconds flat. In situations where mappers with players to run about circle-strafing and killing Gargs in ten seconds flat, they can provide them with an Egon gun).

Felix
06-09-2003, 06:48 AM
Believe me. The sniper ammo is good this way. When i pick it up i usually pick with 10 (In rifle already) But when there is a sniper rifle there is ammo.

Mad Jonesy is right, its a support weapon not a attack weapon.

Uncle
06-09-2003, 02:00 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sven Viking
[B]Re: Sniper rifle: It's about twice as powerful in SvenCo-op as in OpFor, so you could think of it as having 30 bullets (plus 10 in the rifle), and firing two at once :).[B]



Oooh, didn't know that, thought you guys said it was the same. But won't that allow players to handle monsters all on their own, without need for teamwork? That would make it the assault weapon it shouldn't be allowed to be.


Well, I'm sure by now that the Egon and minigun fulfill different functions, and that's nice. Of course it won't kill gargs, nobody would expect it to do that; I do suppose it'll do a decent job on an Osprey or an Apache though?

All I was worried about was that if I were to use both guns on the same map (eg. in a class system, and why not? The minigun deserves to have a class of its own too!), people would shun the minigun coz the Egon is at least as powerful, and easier to carry and use. But since Mad Jonesy has said that the mini is meant for spray-n-pray while the Egon has more focused damage, I think the mini won't face much competition from the Egon since it is just different, and there'll be a role for both. I haven't seen the minigun in action, so I cannot say for sure, but I trust the Sven Team won't be lying about it! If they say it's different, it's different, I accept their word for it. Now post some screenies of minigun killing power in action!


Out of curiosity (can't wait to ask!), how fast can you go if you have the minigun? Walking speed, or somewhere between that and running, or even slower like crouch walk? Also, I don't suppose the jump module works while you've got the minigun? Third thing; on maps where players cannot drop guns (like the rpg maps), how will the minigun work as an item?

Felix
06-09-2003, 03:59 PM
Walking speed. Dont even try to crounch :/ Or it will be slower.

Turbo9000
06-09-2003, 08:22 PM
I just gotta say... using the Barnacle to repel downwards? BRILLIANT! That sounds like a great way to make a player feel they are going deep down into a level, like a dark cavern or pit or something... and that kind of effect is priceless for a map (not to mention the fog).

And the whole thing about picking up a dead HWgrunt's gat? That's gotta be one of the coolest features this mod has ever seen (in my opinion). Glad it's the only gun you're allowed to use when carried too, that's a great way to keep everyone from using it at any given chance. Great work guys!

tweak
06-09-2003, 09:50 PM
Wouldn't the barnicle distroy the point of some maps? Or is it like the one in OP4 were you can only attach to alien stuff?

MutantMFM
06-09-2003, 10:09 PM
Barnacles can only attach to organic material. So it wouldn't mess up a map at all.

tweak
06-09-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by MutantMFM
Barnacles can only attach to organic material. So it wouldn't mess up a map at all. Okay good. phew.

Uncle
07-09-2003, 01:09 AM
What makes a texture "organic" for the grapple to attach to? Can I make a custom texture that looks like a concrete wall, but is considered "organic" by the game?

SharkMan
07-09-2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Uncle
What makes a texture "organic" for the grapple to attach to? Can I make a custom texture that looks like a concrete wall, but is considered "organic" by the game?

yes you can... now only if i can find out in wally where it says that, its something like a ! or a ~ before the name of the texture

Sven Viking
07-09-2003, 03:20 AM
As I remember, you just need to start the texture name with "GRAPPLE_".