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  1. #26
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    Originally posted by SharkMan
    i dont think he can, because this is BOMS. I don't think he can edit his post. best to report to mod.

    BTW: Rugal have you looked in the WIP, Trempler has been in the process of making many of his own maps; this rework was just a one time thing i suppose.
    That's true, he can't edit his post...

    (I don't see why he should, anyways...)

  2. #27
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    here's where i lose my top.

    Temp can do whatever the fuck he wants to. There isn't crap I can really do about it. I mean what can I do, call the cops? boo hoo. If he wants to be a prick, he can.

    It would just be nice if he respected my intellectual property. And I doubt he "just remade it." I released the source for this map, as a learning device. He admitted he had the source, but didn't realize that it was just for learning. He used it for something it was not intended to be used for. So he should take it down.

    I spent a long time thinking ablout the puzzles in my map, making the gameplay good.. good enough that it has recieved 100% in all reviews so far. If I wanted it to be teamplay co-op I could have converted it in about 1 hour; however, it's not what it was intended for.

    The main reason I do not want this distributed any further is that I do not what the feel of the level to be distorted from its intent, as I said above.

    Again, please be a nice guy and respect me, or else the level design gods will fire hot cowder on you and your levels will be plagued with leaks for ever.
    -cayle

  3. #28
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    Also I know he can't remove the post, but he sure as hell can remove the file...
    -cayle

  4. #29
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    Yea and hopefully a last time thing. Sorry this kind of crap just pissed me off.

  5. #30
    Administrator Sven Viking's Avatar  
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    Link removed.


    Regarding Gut Reaction, ETC and They Hunger: They're conversions, but converted with express permission from the original authors. Neil Manke needs to OK the converted maps before they're released, etc.

    Operation Retribution was not a conversion... the maps were made by SoBek especially for SvenCo-op. BlackOps is a re-work of one of the OpR maps (exaclty the same but with some fixes/black ops replacing grunts) -- Sobek gave Elvis permission to update the map/s.
    Sven Viking

  6. #31
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    thx sven
    -cayle

  7. #32
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    Originally posted by Sven Viking
    Link removed.


    Regarding Gut Reaction, ETC and They Hunger: They're conversions, but converted with express permission from the original authors. Neil Manke needs to OK the converted maps before they're released, etc.

    Operation Retribution was not a conversion... the maps were made by SoBek especially for SvenCo-op. BlackOps is a re-work of one of the OpR maps (exaclty the same but with some fixes/black ops replacing grunts) -- Sobek gave Elvis permission to update the map/s.

    When I said those names, I didn't mean that they were like this, I just meant that they weren't original work either..sorry if u took it wrong way

    Anyways...if Temp DID use the source as u said, then yes, I believe he should ask.

  8. #33
    Retired PD-KC's Avatar
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    So this was a bogus map...

    If it says in the credits of the source .rmf that it's for learning purposes only, and that you've copyrights for it, then it should be a real legal matter. So call the cops and sue him. (NOT kidding.) Or how can you officially copyright your maps? I'd do that right away.

    But every mapper should have respect to the work of their peers... There is honor among mappers.

  9. #34
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    Originally posted by PD-KC
    So this was a bogus map...

    If it says in the credits of the source .rmf that it's for learning purposes only, and that you've copyrights for it, then it should be a real legal matter. So call the cops and sue him. (NOT kidding.) Or how can you officially copyright your maps? I'd do that right away.

    But every mapper should have respect to the work of their peers... There is honor among mappers.
    Afaik you have to buy a copyright.

  10. #35
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    I'll delete

    If this is how CayleG feels I for one will delete it from my computer and refrain from playing it online. It seems Trempler just didn't read enough before converting this map and I doubt he intentionally ripped it off, however, permission was apparently not given so we should all show respect to the maker, CayleG, by deleting it.
    Maybe CayleG could make us a wonderful map to replace it, hint, hint. LOL.
    There is honor among mappers.
    This should also include players.

  11. #36
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    no, you don't have to buy copyrights.

    Under U.S. law, anything original and creative - yes, even your diary, memos, personal correspondence - is protected by copyright. This protection is automatic, from the moment you create something, whether on paper or electronically. So, why bother to register your copyright with the federal government? Well, for one thing, it makes you eligible to receive "statutory damages" which could reach as high as $100,000 per infringement.
    "Want an honest answer or a polite lie?" - FB

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  12. #37
    Banned Rugal's Avatar
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    Want to copyright your map? Put a credits texture in it.

  13. #38
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    Flash you exactly right.

    Nihilanth-DK, when you create a piece of original work, that falls uder the field of ittellectual property, or "media" as a general term, it is automatically copywritten to you. You can make it more concrete by filing paperwork and so on, but blah blah blah....

    Anywho, Thank you for your support.

    Rugal ... He had the source, it doesnt make a difference.
    -cayle

  14. #39
    Registered User Boar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sven Viking

    Operation Retribution was not a conversion... the maps were made by SoBek especially for SvenCo-op. BlackOps is a re-work of one of the OpR maps (exaclty the same but with some fixes/black ops replacing grunts) -- Sobek gave Elvis permission to update the map/s.
    I apologize for my error. I was a playtester for the original maps by Sobek, and while I was following the saga of the reworks of the maps (and IIRC there WAS a direct conversion before BlackOps that simply changed the maps for Svencoop), permission had not been granted by Sobek at that time.

    As for Cayle's map, I agree absolutely permission is a must before using a work like his, and he is right on target for insisting that it not be used if he doesn't want it to be.

    That having been said, Cayle, I think you could learn a lot from the conversion. No one can deny you have great textures and some of the jumping puzzles are quite cool. But the original map pack it was part of was overall pretty lame, IMHO, and yours was the only good map in it. But when I got to it I had an HEV suit and hence a flashlight -- in your standalone version I managed to fall a good ways without light to guide me, as there is no additional lightsource when you have to jump down the pipes at start. As it is, it's simply a pretty but rather vacant map. Not much in the way of gameplay, and not really much of a challenge in tactical terms.

    I was so excited by your map from playing the TrEmplar version that I played XV. Again, a very pretty map, but not much in the way of tactics. On medium skill it's a bit challenging in that you're given little or no health and are scarcely armed while trying to take out a pretty tough opposition after you crawl out of the meat rack. I think
    it's a lot better in terms of action than the previous map,
    but I think the excess of ninjas kind of overdoes it. It would be really cool if you had an alternate path to "sneak up" on the opposition, since you have all those ducts and buildings.
    Again the textures and layout are really great.

    So in sum, I think you should use this as a learning experience. If you haven't played the Svencoop version, give it a try and see what makes it a bit more fun to play. The buildings and textures in XV are awesome. Perhaps if you rework the balance of weapons and health (and don't place monsters i.e. grunts where you can pick them off out of the corner of the room without them firing back) you might have a winner.
    Last edited by Boar; 11-07-2003 at 01:53 PM.

  15. #40
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    Thank you for your well thought comments Boar they are pretty much spot on... Though I tend to like caged a lot, even stand-alone.

    Do remember, that caged was made just for fun, in a very time constrained setting. XV is even more restricted, seeing as I made all the content for it in 6 days. thats 100 textures, mucho models, sprites and so on.... not to mention all the actual brush work, entity scripting and so on. It wasn't meant to be perfect, it was meant to get me a job heheh....

    Anywho, although its an odd way to enter the sven coop community... I might just have to go ahead and make yall something
    -cayle

  16. #41
    Models made with love... FlashBang's Avatar
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    HAHAHA, sure an odd way!

    Welcome to the community
    Looking forward to your creations

    cya
    - Flash
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    "Yes, it was a glorious time to be an american." - M.M.

  17. #42
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    Who care how?

    On that note, WELCOME to the Sven Co-op community. Can't wait to see what you have instore for us. How 'bout making your own Caged conversion, since I deleted Trempler's conversion. All things concidered he did do a good job converting it and it was a fun map, oops, I messed my pants again, gotta stop getting so excited.

  18. #43
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    I'm looking forward to seeing some of your work, it's just a shame that you had to enter the community through someone else's lack of respect for your map.

  19. #44
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    Originally posted by snark
    I'm looking forward to seeing some of your work, it's just a shame that you had to enter the community through someone else's lack of respect for your map.
    It wasn't a lack of respect, it was just a mistake due to confusion

  20. #45
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    FOr one thing..

    ANYTHING having to do with HAlflife or it's add ons is property of Valve and Valve alone. Anything made with VAlve's halflife editors or models, maps, etc cannot not legally be copyrighted by anyone other than Valve(without express permission from Valve) or it truly is theft, so while it may be disrespectful to convert someone's work without asking, it is NOT theft. Sorry to post this, but I take exception to anyone trying to claim ANY part of Valve's legendary Half Life world as their own.

  21. #46
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    Your full of shit. I've taken mass media law courses, and I do have copyrights to all my ittellectual property. I may not be able to sell my maps created under the hl engine, but I do own the layout to the levels. And the Custom textures.

    Just because an original idea is first shown in one wayt, does not mean it can never be shown in another. I.e. I could code my own engine, and rebuild any of my HL maps, and sell the game, and valve could not tell me that they owned the levels i was building.

    Why do you think Valve had to buy maps such as de_dust and others that shipped with cs retail from the mappers?


    pffft!

    zing!
    -cayle

  22. #47
    trigger_delay & func_lazy TrEmPlEr's Avatar  
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    Angry Admins !

    Plz Close this topic plz

    here
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  23. #48
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    well...

    you can be an ass all you want to be but you cannot copyright much less sell something you made with someone else's copyrighted material. Kudos to you for makin a good map using valve's material and adding some of your own touches to it. But you can't copyright something that really isn't yours at least not the engine or hl related files(models,etc) you used to make it. Copyright your storyline all you want to, but if you try and copyright the engine or files which are based on valve's hl you'll get the pants sued off you by Valve.

  24. #49
    im a cop you idiot The-Real-Game's Avatar
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    I think the arguing has gone far enough now.

    This is a lesson for us all, it's vital you get permission from the author before using / converting their maps.

    Thread locked.

    The OP is a nub

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