Thread: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

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  1. #1
    Administrator Sniper's Avatar  
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    How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Just doing a little inquiry on the community. 3.5 is being beta tested (duh), and lots of progress has been made.

    As proof, here's a more recent changelog:
    - Many thanks to Michael 'Sneaky Bastard' Hobson for supplying a fixed version of the com_model.h file for Half-Life.
    - Fixed FGD bug that caused an error in Worldcraft/Hammer if loaded for the first time.
    - Fixed bug that allowed players to gain an unlimited amount of ammo after dropping specific weapons.
    - Fixed missing name for the Nihilanth boss monster.
    - Increased Alien Grunt Armor protection.
    - Decreased rappeling speed with the barnacle grapple.
    - Increased allowable server name length, server names no longer appear "corrupted".
    - Clamped suit volume to 1 to prevent any "SV_StartSound: volume = X" crashes.
    - Fixed animation popping for the Sniper Rifle when doing a full ammo reload.
    - Fixed various name declarations for monsters.
    - Fixed mp_respawndelay not being set when defined in a map cfg file.
    - Fixed bug that froze monsters in place if their follow-target died.
    - Alien Grunts can now turn their heads.
    - Scripted_sentence feature: When adding a "+" in front of a wav file path under "Sentence Name" in Hammer, the monster will be able to say the given wav file without the need for a sentences.txt entry. (Sounds are automatically precached)
    - Big Mommas will now run after and attack anything that happens to kill one of their children.
    - If in an alert state, monsters will run to help any nearby friends by looking for their enemies (if ally is engaged in combat). Result is a more active group of monsters that are better aware of their surroundings.
    - Monsters now run over to dead bodies of their allies, rather than stare off into space.
    - Changed priority of following monsters to keep following their player-owner more often.
    - Grunts now regard Big Mommas as their Nemesis if being pursued by them.
    - Squad leaders can now communicate with other visible squad leaders.
    - Upon encounters with new enemies while being attacked, Big Mommas will attempt to shield themselves from incoming attacks.
    - Fixed crash bug with throwing weapons through teleports.
    - Hud now properly outputs a weapon's clip count, weapons can have over 100 rounds in a clip.
    - Increased view height of nodes from 8 units to 32 units in order to greatly improve navigation around obstacles like stairs, the top and bottom of hills etc. [Note: 'Maximum visible nodes' level design error was removed.]
    - Fixed a serious node-graph linking glitch, node graphs allow monsters to navigate areas 100% better.
    - Fixed bug that would allow monsters to damage/break objects with their melee attacks even if "Trigger Only" was set on func_breakables.
    - New entity: monster_handgrenade; Can have custom model and health option sets the delay before explosion when spawned.
    - Changed "monster_satchelcharge" in FGD file to "monster_satchel" since there is no "monster_satchelcharge" entity.
    - Small cpu optimization added for the bullsquid when it fails to find a path to its enemy.
    - Idle sounds added for the Voltigore.
    - Fixed problem with the squadmaker entity not transferring free-roaming options to its created monsters.
    - Cleaned up Squadmaker and Monstermaker code.
    - Female assassins can now run away from dangerous zombie-like creatures as all other human classes do. (And they're quite good at it, too!)
    - Monsters now recognize Big Momma's mortar as a dangerous thing and attempt to run away from it.
    - Melee-only Male Assassins will now flee if they're being pursued by an attacker, and come back to fight when their enemy has its back turned.
    - Fixed problem with the Apache (when killed) constantly exploding and throwing metal if it fell ontop of another monster.
    - Monsters will make an attempt to get away from Apaches/Ospreys when the helicopters are falling to the ground.
    - Female Assassins no longer make running sounds when walking.
    - New trigger_push spawnflags: "No Clients" and "No Monsters" - Will cause the trigger_push to ignore either entity type.
    - "Disable Respawn" spawnflag added in for items (healthkits, batteries, etc.)
    - Added a "Health Cap" option for item_healthkits. Allows for bonus-health, or to disallow players to use the kits after a specified health level.
    + NOTE: 1 unit of health will drain from the player every 2 seconds if over the maximum health amount.
    - Health kits can be set to give a specific amount of health to the player, individually from other health kits.
    - Increased grapple entity tongue size to make it easier for players to grapple onto things.
    - Osprey Helicopters now fall and slide onto the ground a bit once they crash, and explode after a second or so. Any grunts riding inside of the craft are jettisoned out when it explodes (and killed)
    - Tweaked func_pushables. Stop moving and +use one to "pick it up", move into it to push, or move into it and +use while aiming slightly downward to push with more control. Pick up and start moving to throw a short distance.
    - When attacked, Barnacles will flinch in place making them easier to notice.
    - Cleaned up sound effects, client-side effects, AI glitches, and a crash bug for the Shock Trooper monster.
    - Tweaked/Reduced Shock Trooper damage resistance.
    - Revamped trigger_hurt damage function, players get correct levels of damage regardless of lag level (E.g. no more instant deaths from trigger_hurts that give 20 damage)
    - Re-worked ammo-dropping system to only drop as much ammo from the player as can be picked up by the standard ammo_entities.
    - Medkit healing rate increased
    - Added "item_generic" to the Sven Co-op FGD (Accidentally left out)
    - Alien Grunt Hornets have 50% reduced sight range, and only tracking-hornets will be fired if the Monster can not see his enemy. If enemy is visible, the alien grunt will fire hornets in a similar manner to the player hornetgun's secondary fire.
    - Alien Grunts no longer aim their Hornet Gun off into the wrong direction, when their enemy takes cover behind something. Instead, they aim their Hornet gun toward their enemy's last known position.
    - Shell casings and gib models now properly bounce and react to the ground.
    - Increased shell casing life time from 2.5 seconds to 5 seconds.
    - Changed tongue orientation for the barnacle grapple.
    - Screen now shakes when in proximity of grenades or other dangerous explosive devices, intensity of screen-shake based on damage.
    - Tweaked shell-casing ejection points for a few weapons
    - Crossbow zoom-toggle delay decreased
    - Minor change: Monsters make a pain sound when they're injected with a needle from the Medic Grunt.
    - Fixed schedule bug that affected monster attack animations.
    - Monsters will immediately start following a new player when they're +used, instead of just stopping and clearing their old follow-target.
    - New weapon: M249 Squad Automatic Weapon
    - Pitdrones now hide from their enemies when reloading their spikes.
    - Monsters now make various sounds to coincide with the NPC commands.
    - Fixed a few issues with the "Create" command for mappers. Adding a "1" at the end of the input will toggle friendly/enemy monster spawning.
    - Mandatory delay of 2 seconds added for teleports, to prevent impatient players from telefragging their team mates.
    - Increased the turning/facing speed for Male Assassins
    - Fixed rare crashbug related to humans running away from dangerous monsters
    - Updated HWGrunt attacking behaviors and fixed tracking bugs
    - Health column added to the scoreboard
    - Decreased accuracy for Otis and Medics that use the Desert Eagle handgun.
    - Fixed some issues with monsters walking off of ledges
    - Re-worked Gargantua flame-mechanics for brush-based enemy support
    - Gargantuas now respond to bullets when shot from behind.
    - Added light-based muzzle flashes to weapons
    - New fair and balanced scoring system. The more health a monster has, the more points you receive for taking them out.
    - Changed around head-bob mechanics for falling/landing.
    - Male Assassins now take more opportunities to use their grenade attack.
    - Fixed problem with secondary attack not calling the dry-fire animation on the Glock 9mm.
    - Scientists can now be set to "fear" players and other friendly monsters.
    - Fixed various reloading glitches for the Glock and 357.
    - Door improvement: Check added to make sure linked doors remain in-sync with eachother.
    - Set gl_round_down to default to 0, offers greater image quality.
    - New Entity: Trigger_change_class - Changes a monster's classification when triggered.
    - Changed some display errors in the sven-coop.fgd file.
    - Fixed a friendly fire problem that caused monsters to shoot their partner's backs by mistake
    - Light entities now have a flag to remove them from the world. As a result, they no longer [need] to add onto the entity count limit (Regardless of if you do specify a targetname for them)
    - Global light control entity added. Mappers now have the ability to toggle all texture lights in a level on or off, or give them a specific pattern (e.g. flicker)
    - Streaming audio support and *.pls playlist file support added for the Sven Co-op MP3 player.
    - New Entity: trigger_track_goal - triggers a func_track_train to start moving toward a specific path_track path entity. Acts like a "call" button for elevators, and can be used to direct trains to specific destinations.
    - Fixed akimbo uzi hud ammo visibility bug
    - Changed scoring system points per-monster
    - Weapon models can now have custom weapon muzzle sprites specified by the weapon.QC file. Use: { event 5005 "sprites/spritename.spr" } -- NOTE: Ensure sprite model is precached.
    - Fixed various "freezing" problems with the Voltigore AI
    - Fixed ancient bug which prevented "running through shallow water" sounds from playing
    - Players no longer make "bubble" sounds when standing in water, sound effect now plays when fully submerged in water.
    - Redundant server side footstep sounds no longer play
    - Particle system created for water splashes and hit effects, etc.
    - Mysterious "second bullet" decal mark is no longer drawn when the Sniper rifle fires.
    - Mapper placed weaponboxes now automatically respawn
    - Fixed a series of third person player animation bugs
    - Tweaked Wrench secondary damage. Takes about 5 seconds to charge up secondary fire, to give a maximum damage bonus of 85 damage points, in addition to the weapon's standard damage.
    - Scientist now plays fear animation for gunshot fire (Bug existed since Half-Life)
    - Fixed monster yaw speed handling
    - Players can now retrieve their own detpacks by +using them.
    - Offloaded FMOD DLL to svencoop folder to prevent any further 3rd party mod incompatibilities.
    - Fixed several crashes with the mp3 player.
    - Shotgun ammo reload speed increased.
    - Shotgun firing speed increased to be more true-to-life.
    - Fixed a series of NPC speech problems.
    - Fixed bug with monster_furniture entities turning to face sounds in the world.
    - Fixed crash bug with client-side spore grenade effect.
    - Fixed idle animation glitches that occurred while an NPC talked. (Caused by old references in Valve's code left over from before Half-Life's release.)
    - Added "npc_moveto" command. Aim to where you want following monsters to move to and press button.
    - Player revival added. Use medkit secondary with 50 ammo to revive a player.
    - Related to player revival: Dead bodies no longer stay around after a player has respawned.
    - Medkit Weapon now properly increases the player's available medkit-ammo supply when not in use.
    - Fixed PVS bug with monsters spawning directly against the ground with monstermakers/squadmakers.
    - Autoswitching fixed. Weapons will now stay deployed until all ammo types are completely empty.
    - After a vote finishes, players must now wait only 2 minutes (instead of 5 minutes) to start a new vote on the server.
    - Clientside bullet tracers now properly trace, accounting for entity models
    - Made several melee attack improvements for the Ichthyosaur.
    - After it's enemy gets killed, the Ichthyosaur reduces it's swimming speed back to a slow velocity. Upon seeing a new enemy, the Ichthyosaur quickly picks up speed again.
    - Improved balance with game skill CVARs. Weapon damage and health for monsters and players has been refined.
    - Crossbow bolts now poison your enemies after the initial hit, for up to 6 seconds.
    - Sentry guns now explode a few seconds after falling over.
    - Baby Gargantus now run to nearby friendly adult Gargantuas if attacked. (Fixed)
    - Fixed flame damage crash bug with Gargantuas.
    - Otis and Barney now run to cover and reload their pistols when they're out of ammo.
    - Opposing Force Mortar and func_op4mortarcontroller entity added. Works the same as in Opposing Force.
    - Fixed bug that prevented a monster from clearing it's enemy, if it was a dead player.
    - Hand grenade physics changed. Grenade no longer "floats" through the air when thrown. Throwing velocity increased and full gravity is applied.
    - Fixed: Hand grenades now deal damage based on the SKILL.CFG entry.
    - Fixed aiming bug with HWGrunt
    - Fixed bug with func_tanks not attacking targets if "Kill Monsters" is set. "Kill Monsters" flag renamed to "Use Relations"
    - Added a "default_map_settings.cfg" file to properly initialize map settings.
    - Improved trigger_setorigin entity.
    - Fixed bug with Pitdrones not being able to form squads.
    - Minigun must now be picked up with the +use key.
    - Weapons can also be picked up with the +use key, in addition to walking over them. Beneficial for weapons that fall down in-accessible areas.
    - Fixed problem with Voltigores not triggering their mapper-specified trigger targets.
    - Clamped multiplayer NPC interpolation
    - Players will now drop active grenades, if they were primed when the player was killed.
    - Fixed death animations not playing properly for Players.
    - Cleaned up client-side weapon code.
    - Path_corner entity "FireOnPass" fields are now triggered when an Osprey passes by.
    - New crosshair aiming method added for third person view.
    - Alien Grunts now play their specific hurt animations based on where they're damaged or killed.
    - Fixed: NPCs no longer "double attack" by quickly repeating attack animations in their schedules.
    - New client-side command: cl_drawshadows. Toggles classic Half-Life Opengl Shadow drawing on/off
    - New client-side command: cam_followaim. Enables/disables the camera to point to the player's crosshairs.
    - Tweaked NPC enemy-cover finding
    - Alien Grunts and Gargantuas now throw their enemies into the air when they swipe, slash, or swing their arms.
    - Alien Grunts now take considerably less damage from melee attacks. (Clubbing, slashes, kicks, etc.)
    - Gargantuas can now pick up small human-sized enemies and eat them.
    - Fixed bug with Babygarg attack schedules.
    - Sitting Scientists can now be model replaced by level designers.
    - Scientists no longer stop following the player if they take damage.
    - Changed physics of gibs, and a few settings with gibs. cl_gibcount now defaults to 10.
    - Fixed small performance issue with various functions like FindCover() that used the wrong info_nodes. (E.g. humans trying to use air nodes..)
    - Baby Headcrabs can now be model replaced.
    - Players take full damage from melee-attacks if they stand on enemy monsters/NPCs.
    - Otis now runs slower than Barney.
    - Crowbars and Wrenches can now heal friendly Turrets or Sentry Guns.
    - Apaches / Black Ops Apaches that spawn, with no paths to follow, will attempt to hover over enemy positions.
    - Monsters that carry MP5s or M249s will now fire full auto.
    - Shocktroopers now toss their impact spores at players, rather than throw them high into the air.
    - New Monster: Rocket Grunt. Uses laser guided aiming.
    - Fixed inversed-model glitch that occured for all visible models when the glow-shell effect was being used.
    - Contacted Valve to resolve the problem with level transitions not working.
    - Modified Male Assassin attack behaviors
    - When attacked up-close by firearms, monsters will attempt to retreat or will flinch.
    - Fixed an issue with the Voltigore's body beam effects not showing
    - Fixed bug with animation events being called twice (bug existed since half-life)
    - Bullsquids now spit at their enemies while running.
    - Bullsquids now attempt to chase down and ram enemies into the air.
    - Bugfix: Trigger_random_time entities will now automatically shut-off if in-active. Triggering them again will produce the desired effect of triggering a random target, rather than "re-activate", which required a second trigger for it to fire targets.
    - Specifying a weapon's movetype to "5" in Hammer, will allow it to float in the air. Added upon request of mappers.
    - Revamped Alien Controller path finding and flight. Massive improvement in navigation.
    - Fixed crash bug with explosive func_breakables defined by mappers with a high explosion magnitude. (Bug exists in regular half-life.)
    - Fixed crash bug/exploit with weapon dropping
    - NPCs afraid of explosives now run away from detpacks recently deployed by the player
    - Env_sentence now properly works. Env_sentence entity added to the mapping FGD file.
    - Monsters that try to avoid friendly-fire no longer worry about hitting Snarks.
    - Fixed relationship bug with Baby Voltigores and Gargantuas / Baby Gargauntas.
    - Fixed exploit: Grenades no longer explode when picked up, if dropped by another player while primed.
    This is going to be a fairly substantial release. The weapons are currently being worked on as well, and I must say they're looking pretty sharp so far. Damage values have also been re-balanced, and there's all sorts of new monster attack features.

    So, that leads me to the main question. How do YOU expect the VIP / Assassin game mode to play out?

    Post away!

  2. #2
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    The fact that your posting this, does that mean the 3.5 is close to being released?

    Back on topic though, WOW thats a massive amount of bug fixes. Especially impressive since you're the only coder and you have to do them all

    VIP should prove very fun and interesting. It will add a whole new element of gameplay. One question though; can map types (like VIP) be mixed with other map types all within the same map?
    Last edited by Chaos Llama; 28-04-2007 at 12:11 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Great list of changes, but can the "crowbar/wrench fixing things" feature be extended to mechanical NPC's like Robogrunts, and maybe func_pushables or breakeables with a certain setting? Anyway, before I get too carried away with a wishlist, here's my take on the proposed VIP game mode:

    Some randomness in monster team AI, so that players never really know what to expect. Would be nice if mappers could actually modify the monster team AI behaviour. (eg. an AI for Assasination could have behaviour specified something like 50% Defend Position, 20% Hide Somewhere, 29% Retreat, 1% Suicidal Counterattack etc, so while most games the AI will play defensively, on 1% of games it might counterattack and take everyone by surprise).

    Llama-proof everything! VIP mode with a player as the VIP, what if VIP afk's or worse still won't leave but starts blocking doors & ladders, and trying to get himself killed? Would be nice if we could create a very smart "bot" to play as VIP when needed, so if there aren't enough human players or no players want to be/can be trusted to be VIP, the AI can take over via this dummy player. Maybe make it a map config, server setting or vote option.

    Being the VIP must be fun. The VIP is poorly implemented in CS and TFC, it always sucked to be the VIP coz you could do little with less firepower, but everyone wanted to kill you. Based on SC public servers, most players only want to shoot n kill stuff, so I don't think VIP will be popular if the only thing you can/are supposed to do, is to run from stuff. The preliminary discussion in the Mapping forum doesn't seem promising, I don't see how a briefcase and plenty of armor will make a player want to be VIP, most likely they'll treat it as a chore and start laming/quit. On the other hand, what someone suggested in the forum, making the VIP something special (eg carrying an Egon) is more likely to make players WANT to be the VIP, and thus elicit more "appropriate" behaviour from the players in that role. Or at least give the VIP something more to do than just hiding & running, say maybe opening certain doors or activating certain sequences, or better yet, interacting with certain NPC's (eg the NPC will only talk to the VIP).

  4. #4
    Mapper or something ozku's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Being the VIP must be fun. The VIP is poorly implemented in CS and TFC, it always sucked to be the VIP coz you could do little with less firepower, but everyone wanted to kill you. Based on SC public servers, most players only want to shoot n kill stuff, so I don't think VIP will be popular if the only thing you can/are supposed to do, is to run from stuff. The preliminary discussion in the Mapping forum doesn't seem promising, I don't see how a briefcase and plenty of armor will make a player want to be VIP, most likely they'll treat it as a chore and start laming/quit. On the other hand, what someone suggested in the forum, making the VIP something special (eg carrying an Egon) is more likely to make players WANT to be the VIP, and thus elicit more "appropriate" behaviour from the players in that role. Or at least give the VIP something more to do than just hiding & running, say maybe opening certain doors or activating certain sequences, or better yet, interacting with certain NPC's (eg the NPC will only talk to the VIP).[/QUOTE]

    I agree, VIP could have more health and armor and of cours more powerfull weapon than other players have. VIP should also look different so we know who he is.

    AI should also try to kill VIP more than other players.

    I can't wait to see new weapons and monsters
    Last edited by ozku; 28-04-2007 at 04:12 AM.

  5. #5
    Mapper Nih's Avatar  
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle
    Being the VIP must be fun. The VIP is poorly implemented in CS and TFC, it always sucked to be the VIP coz you could do little with less firepower, but everyone wanted to kill you. Based on SC public servers, most players only want to shoot n kill stuff, so I don't think VIP will be popular if the only thing you can/are supposed to do, is to run from stuff. The preliminary discussion in the Mapping forum doesn't seem promising, I don't see how a briefcase and plenty of armor will make a player want to be VIP, most likely they'll treat it as a chore and start laming/quit. On the other hand, what someone suggested in the forum, making the VIP something special (eg carrying an Egon) is more likely to make players WANT to be the VIP, and thus elicit more "appropriate" behaviour from the players in that role. Or at least give the VIP something more to do than just hiding & running, say maybe opening certain doors or activating certain sequences, or better yet, interacting with certain NPC's (eg the NPC will only talk to the VIP).
    I'm not sure if giving the VIP lots of firepower is a good idea. Like you said, SC is usually about shooting as many monsters as possible, and I think it'd carry over to the VIP. On the other hand, you could also give the VIP a special weapon that the bodyguards don't have, but only supply the VIP with very limited ammo. Then you could also allow the bodyguards to supply the VIP with more ammo, encouraging teamwork. These things could make the VIP mode a lot more appealing.

    Requiring the VIP to do certain tasks and interact with NPCs is a great idea. It would also prevent the bodyguards from running too far ahead of the VIP.
    I hope that just because VIP is a "gamemode", mappers won't start thinking that a story for the map is no longer important. UT04 showed how a nice background story could still be included into their Assault mode. If a VIP can open doors and interact with npcs, a part of the story could be about how the VIP is some sort of hacker or speaks another language.

  6. #6
    Dumbass blackmage's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    the only things im worried about have been stated before but there should also be an easy and acceisble way for everyobdy to kick annoying lamers/noobs out of vip.
    i mean even easier then console so that everybody gets a good say in the matter .

  7. #7
    Registered User Dillxn's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    why don't you just have a third game-mode where there are no npc's (except for the vip) where actual players are the body gaurds and the other real player team are the assasins.

  8. #8
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nih
    I'm not sure if giving the VIP lots of firepower is a good idea. Like you said, SC is usually about shooting as many monsters as possible, and I think it'd carry over to the VIP. On the other hand, you could also give the VIP a special weapon that the bodyguards don't have, but only supply the VIP with very limited ammo. Then you could also allow the bodyguards to supply the VIP with more ammo, encouraging teamwork. These things could make the VIP mode a lot more appealing.
    The VIP should be able to defend himself reasonable well at all times though, without depending on other players. It's bad enough if you can't get a heal from the whole server, it will be a lot more annoying if you can't even get ammo for your gun that fires super-unique ammo. I believe that it would be best if the VIP could have a 9mmhandgun with infinite ammo (or something like the blaster from Quake), but cannot carry as much ammo for other weapons. That way, the VIP could help out during heavy assaults and be able to hold his own for a while if all his bodyguards are dead and respawning.

    Perhaps giving the VIP a self-recharging HEV suit would be nice? Like, it will automatically recharge itself up to say...25 at 1 point of armor per second if the VIP is not taking damage. Since armor is what keeps you alive in SC, it will allow the VIP to survive longer, but still require him to run from enemies (people tend to die very quickly with no armor). It also prevents the VIP from being Rambo because the VIP will still run out of health if he doesn't link up with his mates (at least it will pin the VIP down near a health charger).

    I just feel that fear of losing the VIP is, in and of itself, a strong enough incentive to have the other players protect the VIP without making the VIP even more dependent on the players to create an even stronger relationship between the two. Instead of nerfing people to get them to work together, we need incentives.
    - Maybe the VIP should be given a medkit that has infinite ammo, but cannot revive/rez players and heals at a slower rate than the medkit that players have.
    - An innate healing aura around the VIP?
    - A "no-screen-shake" aura too (or at least this so players can keep accurate fire going to protect the VIP)?
    - Killing monsters while in the vicinity of the VIP gives a player more kills?
    - Dying in the vicinity of the VIP does not count to your score (to encourage people to be meatshields)?
    - Allow minigunners to fire while walking at a slow speed (or normal walking speed, since they can't leave the vicinity of the VIP lest they lose the ability to move and shoot, but if they walk at the slower walking speed, minigunners might not be able to keep up with the VIP) when in the vicinity of the VIP?
    - Players reload faster in the vicinity of the VIP? Fire faster too? Run faster? Take less damage?

    You get the idea. People may work better in real life when you smack them if they do something wrong, but for this situation, as this is a game, players should be encouraged with rewards to protect the VIP, not be punished for not protecting the VIP.

    Oh yeah, no headshots on the VIP or at least let it be a mapper-defined operation. It gets kinda lame when the Black Ops Sniper is picking off your VIP with his aimbot-perfect accuracy. Especially if the sniper respawns. Perhaps one should also alter all of the VIP's hitboxes to have a damage multiplier of 1? Just to make it easier for the VIP.

    About keeping people from being lame, I suggest having the server keep a list of who has been a VIP for that particular run of the map. When someone is the VIP and dies (assuming the map doesn't end), the server should pick someone who hasn't been the VIP yet (guy with the highest number of kills and best kill ratio? Make a formula up between the two.) Players should also be able to vote someone else into being the VIP, be it at the start of the map or if they feel the VIP is a nub. The newly voted-in VIP should then have to run back to spawn before become the VIP, in order to prevent the players from voting a new VIP in just because the current one is facing impending doom. However, having something like freeze time from CS until a VIP can be voted in is, by far, the best option (An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure). Random selection is just...random.
    Last edited by Delta|Cpt.Terran; 28-04-2007 at 01:18 PM.

  9. #9
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nih
    Requiring the VIP to do certain tasks and interact with NPCs is a great idea. It would also prevent the bodyguards from running too far ahead of the VIP.
    As a side suggestion, I think assassins, bodyguards, and VIPs should be the only ones able to trigger certain things, like a VIP having access to doorlocks or a bodyguard being able to get into an armory.

    I also think the mapper should decide what weapon the VIP / Bodyguard / Assassin gets. Setting the weapon as something that can't be changed is no fun at all. It should be up to the mapper what the map's players get to do.

  10. #10
    Mapper Nih's Avatar  
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito
    I also think the mapper should decide what weapon the VIP / Bodyguard / Assassin gets. Setting the weapon as something that can't be changed is no fun at all. It should be up to the mapper what the map's players get to do.
    You're right. I got carried away with the whole "specific weapons" thing :[

  11. #11
    Someone Special cscarlet's Avatar  
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Hopefully the VIP mode will be taken seriously, unlike CS where everyone would run off and leave the VIP to die.

  12. #12
    aka. Jake_Kolwer Pvt .T.'s Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dillxn
    why don't you just have a third game-mode where there are no npc's (except for the vip) where actual players are the body gaurds and the other real player team are the assasins.
    Because this is a co-op mod. It's already in TFC anyway.
    In heaven all the interesting people are missing.
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  13. #13
    more wpoly = more fun Tuesday's Avenger's Avatar  
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    I just read through the whole changelog and I gotta say, I'm stoked I really like the VIP / Assassination modes - anything that increases the chances for players to work together will be awesome. Assassination will always be fun, but really the idea of an entire level of enemies descending on you in VIP rather than waiting idly sounds really fun. Can't wait.

    PS: Oldschool OpenGL shadows? pwnage.

  14. #14
    Brotherhood of the Ass-Crab DarkRaven's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmage
    the only things im worried about have been stated before but there should also be an easy and acceisble way for everyobdy to kick annoying lamers/noobs out of vip.
    i mean even easier then console so that everybody gets a good say in the matter .
    Cos, no offense, you might as well just play Counter-Strike ( : Condition Zero or Source).

    The VIP really has to be just that, a VIP. VIP's are never really heavily armed, ofcourse SC doesn't really work much with realism (and that's the way most of us like it obviously, which is why everyone still plays SC xD) but a touch of it could be a lot of fun as well.

    The VIP isn't a VIP for nothing, he/she has to be protected, and he/she shouldn't even have to defend him/herself when the team does it's job right. I think it's a better idea to NOT give the VIP more armour or a (better) weapon. Simply cos it'd be a bit pointless and/or not really a challenge at all. Once people KNOW that their VIP is harmless and vulnerable, and that victory in the map depends on his/her survival, they'll start working together sooner and keeping the VIP alive.

    If the VIP is able to take down enemies single-handedly, you might as well not have one at all really >.> (in my opinion).

    I do agree with the aforementioned idea, that the VIP has more than the simple role of getting to the end in one piece. Letting him/her play a significant role in progressing through maps, like letting the VIP remember access codes to secure doors in bases and being able to talk/interact with other NPC's (be it monsters or 'humans') in the proper way. In any case there has to be a clear distinction between the abilities of the VIP and the other players.

    If the whole VIP gameplay is done correctly, it should greatly increase teamwork in all servers and perhaps also the amount of fun had by everyone, by a tenfold =]
    (except for those who prefer mindless rushing and ignoring of teammates over a good, social game of Sven Co-op)

    Ofcourse this is all enhanced or belittled by the maps it's played in. Look at re1, resident evil 1 for example. It's a well-themed map with less-than-generous supplies of weapons and ammo, actual puzzles (for as far as a mapper can input puzzles in SC using the HL engine) and generally careful, but fun and co-operative gameplay. Players are more careful cos dying might keep them locked in the spawn area for good, and they won't quickly run off on their own since hordes of zombies might drown and kill them.
    Put 2 and 2 together and you get 4 right? Combining quality maps like this with VIP mode would certainly create an unforgettable SC experience.

    Another good idea, from Delta|Cpt. Terran above is to reward co-operative play by everyone when they're being sportive, and, well, co-operative.
    If, like Terran said, players actually do their jobs right and immediately save the VIP by serving as "meatshields" they should be awarded for that. Maybe give some other kind of point(s) that can be used or at least compensation in the death-count.
    Ofcourse give the VIP something like that too, so noone will be tempted to just do nothing and lame around while being the VIP.


    EDIT: Just went for dinner and see how much posts are made while I'm gone xD
    CrstBld [Dark.Punk.Raven] N!gHtH4wK !!!
    Good,fun cooperative teamplay since....well i forgot,but thats detail

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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    for the assasination mode:
    It should definitly have a lot of randomness. On the AI side, i think it would be cool if some events that happen while no npc is watching would influence the bahavior, eg a security cam, that notifies all npcs that the players took a specific way. What if because one of my teammates forgot to crouch we all face an amount of enemies we could have otherwise avoided? (could maybe be done with a trigger_once as well, but hopefully you get it^^)
    looking forward for what can be done
    VIP might be fun as well, but how the vip is equiped should be decided by the mapper

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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    The VIP Mode is complicated. Giving more weapon to VIP will likely make the player leave him alone while let VIP weak only making other people don't like to become a VIP. Maybe there should be some tricks to make other people must near the VIP. Like increase health gradually, make them harder to die, they can do more damage, etc... There are many ways to make people near the VIP, through.
    And for the Assassinated. If you make a false VIP along the way, it should be more fun. And player have to split their teamate if they want to do both jobs.

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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Mentioned before but i still want to say it.
    -Have the VIP only able to open doors BUT after each door, the bodyguards get more guns. This means that people WANT the VIP to get there so they can shoot more stuff and this sates the "IWANNASHOTYU!" mentality thirst.
    -VIP can not run as fast. Still make him go faster than a minigunner can walk but not so fast that people can bunny hop through a level.
    -Have the VIP the only one with a medkit. It has a radius attack/heal and infinite ammo.
    -The VIP gets more ammo per player. Thus he wants to stick by them. So say he has an EGON then he gets 10 ammo per 30 seconds per player. So he wants to stick by the bodyguards not JUST for protection but for ammo too.
    -For assasination, make sure that there are multiple ways to get the target. Like hitman. So you could wait till he's under a crate then shoot the wire suspending it or something.
    -For VIP I think there needs to be a zombie attack map where everyone defends the VIP from a baricade that the players make. It'd be easy to code. You could have buttons to cover up different doors. So for example you could choose to put 6 boards on the front door (press button 6 times) but only 2 on the windows. You only have 20 boards to use so you must choose wisely.
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  18. #18
    Banned sixcentgeorge's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    "- Fixed bug that allowed players to gain an unlimited amount of ammo after dropping specific weapons."
    i wish the bug will be allowable via a setting in config of map , some maps do not have so much ammos respawnings .

  19. #19
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Nodes used by VIP's only would be good entity addition in case they are attacked or are near their escape point so they can run, or move around obstacles without the bodyguards doing the same.

  20. #20
    Someone Special cscarlet's Avatar  
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    By the way will the ai shoot the body guards first or at the VIP first?

  21. #21
    Brotherhood of the Ass-Crab DarkRaven's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Coming back to my argument about the VIP...

    Again, I don't think it's wise to actually give the VIP any extra's.
    The VIP should be an actual VIP, pretty much just an unfortunate civilian who happens to know something the bad guys dont want others to know. Civilians usually dont know how to handle fireweapons, let alone how to properly do combat with dangerous aliens and trained soldiers and assassins. They rely completely and solely on the protection of other players.
    If the VIP could actually do these things which aren't much possible, the fun of the game and the possibility of good co-operative gameplay would be off really...

    So then you'd say that noone would want to be the VIP right? Well good point, but there's always some way to prevent that. For instance you could reward the VIP player by giving him credits (kill-count mostly) for getting to a certain point in the map, doing a specific something or things like that.

    And if you want to motivate the other players to properly protect the VIP you again have to come up with rewards for them, again this can be done by awarding "kill" points but you have to consider other possibilities as well. Such as only allowing co-operative players to be able to pick up a certain gun from a weapon spawn, or teleporting them along with the VIP to the next part of the map or anything else that players would go for.
    If possible, rewards shouldn't come from the VIP him/herself, rather use the VIP as a medium (like determining how close other players are to the VIP, indicating protectiveness) and give rewards based on that.

    Bottomline in my opinion is, it's more fun if things are more of a challenge and that it can be done with a slight touch of realism, mostly simply to motivate people to play together cos when everyone goes solo (that's what happens if the VIP has "abilities) it gets boring quite quickly. Besides, the game isn't called Sven Co-op for nothing.

    PS. It would be nice if players could vote for the position of VIP and/or allow them to nominate themselves and others for it.
    CrstBld [Dark.Punk.Raven] N!gHtH4wK !!!
    Good,fun cooperative teamplay since....well i forgot,but thats detail

  22. #22
    Mapper Nih's Avatar  
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Who says the VIP has to be a civilian? What if the mapper wants him to be something else?

  23. #23
    d-|-b o.O
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    I think this is what it would play:

    someone here posted:
    why don't you just have a third game-mode where there are no npc's (except for the vip) where actual players are the body gaurds and the other real player team are the assasins.
    well, that wouldnt be any close to coop gameplay right? and this is svencoop....yeah...co-operative

    well, this is what it would play now:

    you have this street with wrecked buildings or some black mesa place. the players must prevent gman to reach some place where he can escape. but he has bodyguards that can shoot so you are screwed.
    relying on sneaky tactics, the players must snipe or rush with machineguns at the bodyguards, who now can respawn too, while other players try to kill gman. Brave situations such as someone jumping from a window to blast gmans face, but failing, or sniping at gmans head when realising a bodyguard has sniped your head it will be quite challenging.

    players will respawn at different areas that happen to be checkpoints of when gman passes by so the assassins dont have to run 4 blocks to get to him. bodyguards also can do this.
    assassins can respawn at the buildings while the bodyguards at the streets near gman.

    taking advantage of the new features you can set boobytraps or ambushes if players are in constant contact. Sadly this will never happen, since noobs are everywhere and will just rush and get killed by the bodyguards double uzis.

    taking cover and blind firing canbe an option. a firefight on a street between the bodyguards and garrisoned players can make a different fun gameplay.


    that's what i think
    --Sven co-op Commando team journal--
    Mission: Failed.
    Location: Ravenholm.
    Situation analisys: EXTREMELY hostile.
    -Distress call: Connecting...Calling...Sending...Main base out of range...Re-sending to all bases...awaiting response...
    No response...

  24. #24
    Regular Sph!nx's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nih
    Who says the VIP has to be a civilian? What if the mapper wants him to be something else?
    Indeed! I would like to see that the mapper has as many freedom he can get.

    Although team-play should not be in VIP maps. Eiter an NPC VIP where the players can attack or could be made to defend but when there is a player NPC it must be made that the players cannot kill the NPC and must be on his side. I assume that the objectives and such are to up to the mapper.

  25. #25
    Mapper or something ozku's Avatar
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    Re: How do you expect the VIP / Assassination Game Mode to play?

    - We want that being VIP is fun, not that "I dont wanna be VIP" feeling. That is why VIP should have better weapons or something extra.

    - Other players should stay near VIP and protect him/her. Players could get points when they heal VIP and they would like to stay near VIP.

    - We dont want that VIP just run and die. He/she should need other players to proceed. There could be stuf that only players are able to do.

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