Thread: v5.0 Progress Report

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  1. #26
    Custom User Title Kanardator's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Hi!
    I'm just curious about the choice of AngelScript for the scripting language. Why not using a language like Lua, Javascript (v8 engine) or C# Mono which have very large communities? Lua is widely used and known thanks to games like WoW, Garry's mod and Löve2d.
    I've never heard of AngelScript before, just learnt that it's used in the Amnesia/Penumbra games.
    So I was wondering why AngelScript?

  2. #27
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by ComunidadX View Post
    This is good, i congratulate everyone for their work and understand the delay,
    clarify this doubt in allocblock limit is still 64? perhaps said in the changelog and had not understood.
    I'm pretty sure that was to do with the amount of heap memory the engine will take, in which case the ceiling (and default) is raised to 256MB. I've got a pretty large maps running on SC5 but haven't encountered AllocBlock Full on it.
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  3. #28
    QPU-aligned Silencer's Avatar  
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanardator View Post
    So I was wondering why AngelScript?
    While I have not personally worked on it, I believe there was various reasoning:
    - Angelscript integrates nicely with C data types (this means much less hassle for us)
    - It has familiar, cpp-like syntax (less learning; better integration with existing IDEs)
    - Access control (you cannot call a function we don't provide, so there is no fear of "evil maps" wiping your disk drive or something)

    As for point 3, the options you named might provide a mechanism for controlling this; however, see point 2: We'd have to learn how to do it, which again is costly and annoying.

    Sniper or Solo may call me out on being kinda or entirely wrong on this, though. This is just my well-educated answer.

  4. #29
    Banned Solokiller's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    I didn't have a hand in deciding which language to use, but in working with it i can tell you it's powerful due to having a lot of 1:1 code.
    Angelscript can call native code directly, and calling script functions is pretty easy. I designed a system that makes calling script functions a one liner.
    Lua seems to be less capable, using a system like Angelscript's generic calling convention: http://www.lua.org/pil/26.1.html

    While this is a risk - registering the function incorrectly will cause stack corruption, which i've done when forgetting something - it's far more powerful, and faster.

    If we need to release patches on short notice it'll be easy to make adjustments too.
    As an example, let's say i had to write a class that can read text files, use the data in it as keyvalue data to instance and initialize entities, all without giving a script direct file access.
    That's easy to do, registering the class and its methods is almost trivial to do. This class would then be able to read .bsp entity data, and instance the whole thing.
    Basically you can use this class to populate the map with hundreds, even thousands of entities like monsters, with as little as 3 lines of code in Angelscript.

    Code:
    CEntityLoader loader("myentities.txt");
    
    if(loader.ContainsData())
        loader.LoadEntityData();
    Internally LoadEntityData will loop through all the data, instancing every entity and setting the keyvalues, just like the game does while loading the map.
    You could even use the map's brush models, so this would be like ripenting, without modifying the original map.
    You could use this to make one empty map, fill it with all the logical and monster entities based on a choice the players make, all without needing more than 1 trigger_script to set the whole thing in motion.

    And now that i've given myself the idea, i might just implement this.

  5. #30
    QPU-aligned Silencer's Avatar  
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Solokiller View Post
    And now that i've given myself the idea, i might just implement this.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

  6. #31
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanardator View Post
    Hi!
    I'm just curious about the choice of AngelScript for the scripting language. Why not using a language like Lua, Javascript (v8 engine) or C# Mono which have very large communities? Lua is widely used and known thanks to games like WoW, Garry's mod and Löve2d.
    I've never heard of AngelScript before, just learnt that it's used in the Amnesia/Penumbra games.
    So I was wondering why AngelScript?
    I evaluated many scripting languages. It was pretty difficult as I knew this would have a huge impact on the game. I decided Sven Co-op should use Angelscript primarily because of its familiar C++ syntax and straight forward binding process (integration between Sven Co-op's C++ game code and Angelscript).

    Server plugins from AMX Mod X and Admin Mod are also programmed using the Small programming language (now called Pawn). Pawn is very similar to C or C++, and quite possibly you could copy and paste code between Angelscript and AMX Mod X plugins without too many changes.

    I felt, overall, Angelscript would provide a superior user-base (in terms of sheer size) than Lua ever could. Simply put, more people know how to write C, C++, Java, Javascript, Perl, PHP, Small/Pawn (server plugin authors), etc.

    Angelscript is probably more useful to learn for job prospects... especially if you are learning how to program for the first time.

  7. #32
    Advanced Leveldesigner SourceSkyBoxer's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Nice features And does Sven Coop 5 support colision-used models like i go obver model like birdge or built stairs is model and they can stair up?

    colision-used like Half-Life 2 Models ( prop_static )
    Angelscript =/= Actionscript I am sorry because i am going crazy. Angelscript is not Actionscript and it is only C-Data Script, right. I have readden same...

    Thanks for nice update for SC5!
    Hello guys, Svencoop. I am sorry Please respect me! I am deaf. Thanks, Sven-Coop Forum!

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  8. #33
    whats this do warbrand2's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Just wondering as the game is moving to steam... will that change the donator info for the items like the chumtoad and gold uzi's?


    Also I can't wait for this.
    = evil

  9. #34
    Nothing to see here. BackAssward's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by warbrand2 View Post
    Just wondering as the game is moving to steam... will that change the donator info for the items like the chumtoad and gold uzi's?


    Also I can't wait for this.
    What do you mean by "change the donor info"? We already use steam_id...

  10. #35
    whats this do warbrand2's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    More wondering if how donations are gained will change, like well you be adding an option for someone to donate for "DLC" through steam.
    = evil

  11. #36
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by warbrand2 View Post
    More wondering if how donations are gained will change, like well you be adding an option for someone to donate for "DLC" through steam.
    Nothing will change.

  12. #37
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    First of all. Thanks for the update. Any preview video?

    Will Half-Life: Decay be coming too? Last we heard: http://forums.svencoop.com/showthrea...l=1#post481330 (Sorry if I am repeating myself from the 5.0 Changes & Updates thread)

    Also will anyone from the HL: Improvement team be helping too?

    Ever think of slapping a beta in the release Title along with notes on the Title screen to ask players for feedback to help make the Mod better as well?

    Maybe also on the Title screen ask if anyone who thinks they can assist development join the team? Like an icon that says "Interested in helping development for the next version of Sven? Click here."

    Maybe do a weekly or Monthly survey on getting feedback from the players on how they are enjoying the game and what features they would like to see next and what current elements they like or don't like and so forth.

    Can't wait for the first release. I hope it's worth the long wait.
    Last edited by Crow550; 28-09-2014 at 11:17 PM.

  13. #38
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Thank you for this post and I can only say AMAZING WORK YOU GUYS!!! You deserve 1000000 Thank yous! Take all the time you need to make a good release. Reading the list of upcoming features gave me multiple orgasms!

    The only sad thing is that real-life has gotten his claws on me and I have very little time for mapping. Like Nih said, we wont see any of these new features without mappers...
    I don´t think I will find the time to get myself into angelscript, but maybe some motivated people will make some angelscript-prefabs that we can just plug into our maps.
    ZN progress:

  14. #39
    Love a lost memory Angel's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    I'm pretty sure that was to do with the amount of heap memory the engine will take, in which case the ceiling (and default) is raised to 256MB. I've got a pretty large maps running on SC5 but haven't encountered AllocBlock Full on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf-3d View Post
    allocblock is a difficult one to test in isolation (It is the sum of many things and And the compiler value was only "a guess" of the engines value (It is/was for reference purposes only).

    With the new SDK, I have gone to 101 without problems in either "compiler" or "SC 5.0" Gameplay.

    The real limit is what SC 5.0 can safely cope with. Hence we require new mega maps to find these exact limits and trace any problems/bugs.

    A new SDK test compile I did:
    Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
    ------------ --------------- --------------- --------
    models 332/4096 21248/262144 ( 8.1%)
    planes 13706/65536 274120/1310720 (20.9%)
    vertexes 40663/65535 487956/786420 (62.0%)
    nodes 13619/65536 326856/1572864 (20.8%)
    texinfos 5765/32767 230600/1310680 (17.6%)
    faces 29026/65535 580520/1310700 (44.3%)
    * worldfaces 23708/65535 0/0 (36.2%)
    clipnodes 31985/65536 255880/524288 (48.8%)
    leaves 8641/65536 241948/1835008 (13.2%)
    * worldleaves 5611/65536 0/0 ( 8.6%)
    marksurfaces 37137/65535 74274/131070 (56.7%)
    surfedges 137969/512000 551876/2048000 (26.9%)
    edges 69271/256000 277084/1024000 (27.1%)
    texdata [variable] 3352912/67108864 ( 5.0%)
    lightdata [variable] 4285044/67108864 ( 6.4%)
    visdata [variable] 1344700/67108864 ( 2.0%)
    entdata [variable] 283763/2097152 (13.5%)
    allocblock 101/64 0/0 (157.8%)

    You should be able to work out the the theoretical new max by looking at the "multiplier factors" of each category but that assumes a perfect release in terms the SC code limits matching the new custom Engine limits and no memory leaks. (The Standard HL code is full of Memory leaks and one the reasons you could be at 50/64 allocbloc for the compiler but would get "Error: Max Alloc Exceeded" when you tried to run your map, whereas another map could be 64/64 and run without any problems. Some entities leaked, others didn't.)

    On the plus side, as the Dev's have gone through the SC & custom Engine to update new limits, they did spot a number of "previously unknown" memory leaks. (see changelog.)
    I can use more of the limit 64 in 5.0 hehe that's fine, thank you very much for your answers and clarify my doubts.
    This was annoying at first because it was something new to me, but now we know that this limit will be extended in sc 5.0, I can build my quiet map (although not very detailed but it is something n.n)
    Vive la vida segundo a segundo recuerda que todo los problemas tiene solucion se feliz.


  15. #40
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Thanks solokiller i've think i had to waiting a few month for the sven coop 5.0

  16. #41
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    and i can support some plugin for sven coop 5.0

  17. #42
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Just one small request. I see that you are adding new path entities for AI and that you are removing the "entity to guard" option from the FGD. Plz for the sake of backward compatibility keep the code for "entity to guard" in game, if possible. Not many, but some maps (mine for example) use this feature.
    ZN progress:

  18. #43
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by ComunidadX View Post
    This is good, i congratulate everyone for their work and understand the delay,
    clarify this doubt in allocblock limit is still 64? perhaps said in the changelog and had not understood.
    With the current internal version I've been able to go to up to 266 allocblocks on a test map. More cause HLRAD to crash on MAX_PATCHES. That's still a lot of room for 5.0 maps until it's raised again with wizard magic.
    yo

  19. #44
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Nam-grunt View Post
    i hope some new NPC like :
    baniel
    panther eye
    There is a possibility to change any monster model/sounds on your map- I thing that's enough to make Barniel that works the same way as Barney. You can fight Panther Eye in Sectore-E map, and this is a replaced Alien Slave. There is no need to make new NPC, unless it would have new, unique combat style, behaviors, and abilities.

    But, if they add Panthereye or Barniel as a new NPC, the level designers would pick them more likely, so we might see them more frequently in game.

    One more think: Barniel is already used for a player model.

  20. #45
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Oh wow, never heard of that! Off to eBay I go to buy myself a nice rubber duck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow550 View Post
    Will Half-Life: Decay be coming too? Last we heard: http://forums.svencoop.com/showthrea...l=1#post481330 (Sorry if I am repeating myself from the 5.0 Changes & Updates thread)
    Edman747 and I have done some work with converting HLecay and its' about half-done. Getting difficult as the Dorms map can't be decompiled for some reason, so getting entity positions right is hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow550 View Post
    Also will anyone from the HL: Improvement team be helping too?
    Not that I'm aware of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow550 View Post
    Ever think of slapping a beta in the release Title along with notes on the Title screen to ask players for feedback to help make the Mod better as well?
    We have discussed putting together a beta team for well-known community members, but not done much of it yet. It is very likely to happen though, so we can get some broader feedback from players that know the game well already.

    Quote Originally Posted by ComunidadX View Post
    I can use more of the limit 64 in 5.0 hehe that's fine, thank you very much for your answers and clarify my doubts.
    This was annoying at first because it was something new to me, but now we know that this limit will be extended in sc 5.0, I can build my quiet map (although not very detailed but it is something n.n)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mazur View Post
    With the current internal version I've been able to go to up to 266 allocblocks on a test map. More cause HLRAD to crash on MAX_PATCHES. That's still a lot of room for 5.0 maps until it's raised again with wizard magic.
    haha yep what Mr. Mazur said, though I use sparse patches to overcome that limit. If you're still hitting the expanded limit from sparse patching, you can effectively get unlimited patches by using the "nomatrix" option. This means lighting won't be dependant on the visibility matrix, but will take a lot longer to compile.
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  21. #46
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Ah thanks for the answers. With all the neat stuff they were or are (?) working on for HL: Enhanced: http://youtu.be/4vKUdR8YFLM You should ask those devs if they would like to assist development on Sven. It would be worth a shot at least.

    Some of there early concept videos were interesting. Also ask these other developers in the vids I posted as well. Never hurts to ask: http://forums.svencoop.com/showthrea...l=1#post500055

    Keep up the awesome work.
    Last edited by Crow550; 29-09-2014 at 07:20 PM.

  22. #47
    Developer Zolleriux's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Just came here to tell you how glad I am about the news, thank you to all the devs for making this possible.

  23. #48
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    We will have an early access for donators or something like?

  24. #49
    Registered User Degen's Avatar
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Can I still keep making my maps and then play them in 5.0? If so, will it be simple to make them work in 5.0?
    I don't want to waste my time, I've been working on a few maps for a long time now.
    Newbie, learning Valve Hammer Editor

  25. #50
    Mapper Nih's Avatar  
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    Re: v5.0 Progress Report

    Nothing has been added that should break any maps. In fact a few old maps might start working again due to increased engine limits.

    Edit: Except a small alteration to env_beam, but we're keeping an eye out for that.

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