Thread: between_elvis_r

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  1. #1
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    between_elvis_r

    This is a remake of between_elvis_lg. Besides the original map not looking all that great, it had a number of annoyances. The biggest annoyance is that monsters, both friendly and enemies would run down the side of the cliff into the pit constantly. This normally wouldn't be a problem, but it gets to be a pain when an alien grunt chases all of the barneys/otises and scientists into the pit and they all die.

    I've managed to get the "lemming problem" whittled down to the point it rarely happens unless the map gets very busy.

    Other changes:
    - New Assassin train at regular intervals.
    - Assassin roost wall is replaced with railings so they have a much wider attack range. Before they could really only hit the upper floor, now they can hit probably 3/4 of the map.
    - Bridge reworked to look much nicer.
    - Railings added everywhere to prevent monsters from doing hilarious things like walking up walls or flying across the room.
    - Replaced the staircase in spawn with an enclosed stairwell for better traffic management. Scientists also like to hide in here, so guard it with your life.
    - Hallways in upper floor reworked to be more open.
    - Map no longer automatically ends when the helicopter comes, you have to crawl the rope and touch the base of the helicopter to end the map.
    - Monsters no longer stop spawning when the helicopter comes, you can stay and fight indefinitely if you want.
    - Enabled unused feature from old map that spawned fassassins after the helicopter comes.
    - Added turret to spawn area which is inactive by default. You need to trigger the secret buttons to activate it. Once activated, it will stay active for 90 seconds if it doesn't have a target (indefinitely if it does.) At which point it will go inactive again until re-activated.

    But enough of my babbling, here are some (older) screenshots:

    Spawn



    Tramcar-o-Assassins (TM). The original map had no tram, just a track.



    View from Assassin sniper platform. It's more open so they have a wider range of targets.



    View from second floor:



    Download:
    http://number-7.com/files/half-life/...en_elvis_r4.7z
    Last edited by GiGaBiTe; 11-01-2016 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    You should probably name it differently so players do not confuse this with the original.

  3. #3
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    You should probably read the map name before making inane suggestions.

  4. #4
    Game tester Jaf's Avatar  
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    I agree with dynamite, the name should be more clear to avoid confusion.

  5. #5
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    You can agree or disagree all you want, the name isn't getting changed.

    I find it absolutely hilarious that people are nitpicking about a remade maps naming convention. How have you gotten around the Half-Life universe for the past 17 years? There are sometimes upwards of hundreds of maps that use the same name with different version suffixes. It's not hard to remember which version suffix you want and most people try not to tread on that with duplicate suffixes, myself included.

    I've counted about 5 different versions of the original between_elvis, and that's not counting the versions that use plugins and ripent/stripper2 to modify the gameplay. None of them use the _r suffix, which is why I grabbed it. It's pretty safe to say that the original map isn't going to be updated by the original author, the map is over 7 years old.

  6. #6
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    I don't see much problem with the name as the map is very close to the original, and intended to just be an improved / beefed up version of it. Providing you clearly specify in the map description/MOTD that your map is a remake of someone else's.

    I do enjoy this map now and then but I always felt it lacked replayability. As you've done a remake you have an opportunity to add a few (perhaps randomised) interesting objectives. I appreciate this would be a bit limited as the map intends to stay within a small area. It was also nice that this map was losable, but the objective delivery (a game_text that was easily overwritten) often confused players what the objectives were or when they even needed to be done.

    Maybe also before the map starts have a vote for a hard mode? No respawning (survival mode with occasional reinforcements)
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  7. #7
    trigger_delay & func_lazy TrEmPlEr's Avatar  
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    Really great work this version is a real improvement. I would also like to see the stuff adam requested for this map
    Also no Problem with the name, you gave credits so its fair enough.

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  8. #8
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    The biggest annoyance ... run down the side of the cliff into the pit constantly. ...

    I've managed to get the "lemming problem" whittled down to the point it rarely happens unless the map gets very busy.
    You can completely stop this via a few high walls made with the brush entity "func_monsterclip", you then have to edit the Flags TAB of all pre-placed npc's and squadmakers that you don't want to "fall in" by going to their Flags TAB and setting "monsterclip" to Checked).
    [i.e. exclude the npc's on train and any flying monsters]

    FYI: You could also use func_clip (with TAB monsters Checked) but then you have to work out the individual "npc approach angles" because the brush blocks in one direction only (like a one way wall but relative to map orientation.)

    PS: Really great work and thanks for helping to improve the Player's experience of Sven with your bug and map fixing.
    Regards
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  9. #9
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    I don't see much problem with the name as the map is very close to the original, and intended to just be an improved / beefed up version of it. Providing you clearly specify in the map description/MOTD that your map is a remake of someone else's.

    I do enjoy this map now and then but I always felt it lacked replayability. As you've done a remake you have an opportunity to add a few (perhaps randomised) interesting objectives. I appreciate this would be a bit limited as the map intends to stay within a small area. It was also nice that this map was losable, but the objective delivery (a game_text that was easily overwritten) often confused players what the objectives were or when they even needed to be done.

    Maybe also before the map starts have a vote for a hard mode? No respawning (survival mode with occasional reinforcements)
    I really don't know enough about SC specific entities to do such things. I'd have to reverse engineer another map that had similar objective systems to figure out how to do it in this map, which I'm not really keen on doing. Debugging the scientists not going to their objectives took days and really burned me out.

    If someone else was interested in implementing an objective system or difficulty levels, I wouldn't have a problem giving the source to someone to add these things.


    Quote Originally Posted by wolf-3d View Post
    You can completely stop this via a few high walls made with the brush entity "func_monsterclip", you then have to edit the Flags TAB of all pre-placed npc's and squadmakers that you don't want to "fall in" by going to their Flags TAB and setting "monsterclip" to Checked).
    The original map used func_monsterclip, but the brushes weren't really placed in ideal positions. I redid the monsterclip brushes, but the problem is that sometimes monsters will completely ignore them, which is why there's still the occasional lemming.

    Here are the areas circled where the most lemming issues happen:



    To figure out the cause of lemmings, I sat in noclip and watched these areas for several hours. The two scenarios in which a lemming would happen are:

    1) Several monsters would gang up on one monster, and in the victim monsters' attempt to flee, it would start spazzing about and suddenly teleport onto the other side of the monsterclip brush and fly down the cliff.

    2) A monster that was targeting another monster from across the pit or bridge would start wildly running around, then when they got near one of the circled areas, they would instantly do a sharp turn and run straight down the cliff into the pit. I've debugged the navmesh and there are no paths for ground monsters that go into the pit so I'm pretty baffled about this.

  10. #10
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    To figure out the cause of lemmings, I sat in noclip and watched these areas for several hours.
    Ouch ! - You are far more dedicated than most of us. (or me at least.)

    Taking an educated guess based on your observations:
    - Onto the existing brushes on train track edge insert a new monster_clip brush along the track edge on each side, 8 units away from the track height 256 units. This should allow any monster_babygargs and smaller npc to run onto the track area.
    - "Square off" the angles on the monster_clip brushes situated on the bridge. (The npc's as they swarm/block each other are probably being origin corrected by the code causing them to climb the slopes/similar to what the "stuck" command does to players.)
    - Optionally the other monster_clip bushes can be raised to 256 or higher as well. (C4, grenades, rpg's etc can cause conc jumping).

    Hopefully this will sort out the issue and once again thanks for all the work done.

    PS: Very basic image of what I mean, attached.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards
    Wolf-3D

  11. #11
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    I can try the clips on the train tracks but I can't do it on the truss because alien controllers will fly into it and get stuck.

  12. #12
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    Map updated, new link in OP.

  13. #13
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    The alien controllers should not get stuck because under their Flags TAB Monsterclip should not be Checked (the same applies for any npc on the train, as the train will be wider than the single track + spaceing (i.e. 8 + 64 + 8) and you want those npc's inside to travel along with the train without being gibed on the func_monsterclip brushes.

    I am assuming the truss is a func_wall, brush with renderfx "solid", renderamt "150~200" or similar, so any blocking by the truss is because of a angled func_wall (for controllers and players) and not the square func_monsterclip.
    Regards
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  14. #14
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    I really don't know enough about SC specific entities to do such things. I'd have to reverse engineer another map that had similar objective systems to figure out how to do it in this map, which I'm not really keen on doing. Debugging the scientists not going to their objectives took days and really burned me out.

    If someone else was interested in implementing an objective system or difficulty levels, I wouldn't have a problem giving the source to someone to add these things.
    Moved a tutorial for difficulty levels here.
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  15. #15
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    Quote Originally Posted by wolf-3d View Post
    I am assuming the truss is a func_wall, brush with renderfx "solid", renderamt "150~200" or similar, so any blocking by the truss is because of a angled func_wall (for controllers and players) and not the square func_monsterclip.
    Bridge truss is func_detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    Moved a tutorial for difficulty levels here.
    Thanks for the effort of making the guide, but that's a tad more work than I'd want to do on this map.

    I've released another update to the map and included the source too so anyone can mess with it. And like I was talking about earlier, I'm using the _R suffix so I'd like it if anyone uses the source for anything, change the suffix of the map to something other than _Rx.

  16. #16
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    I've updated the map to revision 4.

    Changelog
    - Fixed scientists not spawning due to not enough room.
    - Added more monster clips to the tram tunnel to prevent stuck monsters.
    - Moved sniper assassins to room above tram tunnel to lessen fighting with alien slaves.
    - Replaced some tunnel monsters to add bullchicken and pit drones for more variation.
    - Added bigmomma, kingpin and voltigore in rotation with the rappelling blackops for more variation.
    - Reduced the maximum spawn period for the bigmomma, kingpin, voltigore and blackops from 300 seconds to 240 seconds.
    - Fixed a problem that made is so the map could never complete.
    - Added an alternate exit through the blast doors in spawn.
    - Made the stairwell door areas slightly larger to reduce crowding.

    Download
    http://number-7.com/files/half-life/...en_elvis_r4.7z

  17. #17
    incognico nico's Avatar
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    Re: between_elvis_r

    The map just ended without the timelimit running out or anyone climbing the helicopter (it was not even there).

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