Sven Co-op Update Released [Build 1213242]

[Noxx]

You should... read the changelog buddy.

I have, and svc_bad is still happening to me and others as mentioned at the bottom of the first page.

So this is the future of svencoop

Sure, don't respond to any of my points like an adult, just make a joke. That doesn't reinforce all the issues I was just talking about or anything...

[Noxx]

You cannot get rid of svc_bad. svc_bad is an error handling mechanism used by the networking code. You can see it used in Quake2 as the default message type, because if a network message doesn't match any of the known network messages, then it's most likely corrupt and the client shuts down because it would never be able to recover. This update fixes three separate causes of svc_bad happening when it shouldn't (that is, when the network messages are not actually corrupt, but the game thinks they are because of other reasons). The three problems are quite separate and cover a wide range of different cases where svc_bad was happening incorrectly. svc_bad will never be completely gone, because that would be bad programming practice (you have to handle errors somehow). It should, however, be much less frequent than it was in previous updates (and even in any other game based on the half-life engine). If you do encounter a svc_bad bug, do let us know (just like what was done in this thread) and we'll investigate. Everybody on the team understands it is a problem. It has happened to us countless times, and there has been a concerted effort to try to minimise it where possible, which is what we've attempted to do in this update.

that affects everyone and it seems like it's not even on your radar even though it's been mentioned in this thread and numerous other times. Yet these random little problems and "optimizations" that don't effect 90% of the players get all the attention like they were game breaking bugs when they're not. It's a tad ridiculous.


I hope nobody feels this way. Nobody on the team blames anybody for noticing bugs. It would be completely counterproductive to have a negative attitude towards people who report problems or bugs. So we are happy when someone reports a problem and we can figure out why it's happening and, hopefully, fix it in a reasonable amount of time. I, certainly, do not want to ignore errors; in particular game-breaking ones. If someone points me to an error I will try to investigate and resolve it.

Thank you, this is good to know. You've been the only dev that hasn't acted like a total ass and has actually responded in a comprehensive and concise manner.

[Sniper]

Thank you, this is good to know. You've been the only dev that hasn't acted like a total ass and has actually responded in a comprehensive and concise manner.

When you come out swinging, expect to get swung back at. We're not attacking you, we're responding to your accusations.

We fixed three causes of SVC_BAD. As far as I'm concerned, we did a pretty damn good job. SVC_BAD is still a problem for regular Half-Life and other goldsrc games, so you really shouldn't be aiming the crosshairs at us.

Just understand that we're trying to fix the game the best we can, but no one has time for drama.

[Nih]

I'm not sure why the programmers even bother working on this game anymore. All I see is complaints these days. Even when they make great progress fixing issues that people have been complaining about for years they just get more "devs dont care" and sarcastic "if this is your fix stop fixing things" posts in response.

[Buckethead]

I'm not sure why the programmers even bother working on this game anymore. All I see is complaints these days. Even when they make great progress fixing issues that people have been complaining about for years they just get more "devs dont care" and sarcastic "if this is your fix stop fixing things" posts in response.

Because bug fixes work like adhesive does in manufacturing.

If it works you don't notice it and take it for granted, if it fails you hate on it because they dared to use something as cheap as glue to manufacture their product.

If you want to be congratulated for progress, you have to implement noticeable benefits for the player base.

[Noxx]

When you come out swinging, expect to get swung back at. We're not attacking you, we're responding to your accusations.

We fixed three causes of SVC_BAD. As far as I'm concerned, we did a pretty damn good job. SVC_BAD is still a problem for regular Half-Life and other goldsrc games, so you really shouldn't be aiming the crosshairs at us.

Just understand that we're trying to fix the game the best we can, but no one has time for drama.

Fair enough. But I'm by no means trying to instigate drama, I am just frustrated by immature behavior from the some of the devs when we ask about issues

[banan2288]

Well then fix problems! svc_bad is the biggest, glaring problem in Sven Co-op today that affects everyone and it seems like it's not even on your radar even though it's been mentioned in this thread and numerous other times. Yet these random little problems and "optimizations" that don't effect 90% of the players get all the attention like they were game breaking bugs when they're not. It's a tad ridiculous.

And please quit blaming us, your playerbase, for your shortcomings just because we notice bugs. We want Sven to thrive and it's frustrating when we come to you, the only people who can fix it, and you tell us it's our fault for pointing it out and that we should be grateful to you that the game works at all.

I know I don't know how everything runs behind the scenes but at times it seems like you guys work against the players rather than with them.

Where you get that 90%? Did you played Sven Co-op after patch? If you got problem- report it instead of screaming around to fix it. Team need more info about specific issues so it can be fixed gradually. Demanding fixing the issue w/o issue specification won't help you. Update greatly improved the game, a lot of players can now play w/o svc_bad error. No one blames players, team just need more help as well, they won't find bugs without your help. They won't fix all bugs in single patch- they worked hard on their free time to fix as many issues as possible.

It's not that easy, it takes time, sometimes fixing one bug produces another- everything need time and patience. There is no person in our team who would sacrifice his free time to fix issues that don't need to be fixed, or makes game worse- if you don't know why something has been removed- ask why it has been removed, maybe it's for optimization, don't act aggressively in the first place. So please stop making it harder for team by writing things like "this update is a garbage" or "you removed another feature, you are making this game worse". Use facts instead of speculation, talk with us instead of demanding things and please stop accusing team of making everything worse basing on someone's single post or groundless arguments, or because you don't like the developers.

[AdamR]

I have, and svc_bad is still happening to me and others as mentioned at the bottom of the first page.

No, you haven't read it. The change log very clearly states we've eliminated 3 causes of svc_bad. We never claimed that this won't ever happen again.

[ceribik]

Wow, linux support at last! Thanks!

[Noxx]

Where you get that 90%? Did you played Sven Co-op after patch? If you got problem- report it instead of screaming around to fix it. Team need more info about specific issues so it can be fixed gradually. Demanding fixing the issue w/o issue specification won't help you. Update greatly improved the game, a lot of players can now play w/o svc_bad error. No one blames players, team just need more help as well, they won't find bugs without your help. They won't fix all bugs in single patch- they worked hard on their free time to fix as many issues as possible.

It's not that easy, it takes time, sometimes fixing one bug produces another- everything need time and patience. There is no person in our team who would sacrifice his free time to fix issues that don't need to be fixed, or makes game worse- if you don't know why something has been removed- ask why it has been removed, maybe it's for optimization, don't act aggressively in the first place. So please stop making it harder for team by writing things like "this update is a garbage" or "you removed another feature, you are making this game worse". Use facts instead of speculation, talk with us instead of demanding things and please stop accusing team of making everything worse basing on someone's single post or groundless arguments, or because you don't like the developers.

I wouldn't act aggressively if this is the first time this sort of thing has happened, but it's not. I am working with years of frustrations so I apologize for snapping but I'm very upset over how the dev team handles problems.

And I am not just speaking for myself here, I am speaking for several players who are friends but are too afraid to ask you guys something because of how hostel you can get when someone disagrees with you. It's like if we respond with anything other than undying praise for you, you guys go into this whole mellow dramatic mode of "I don't know why we even work on this game if all your gonna do is yell at us" and "We're doing this in our free time, you're lucky you've gotten as much as you have". It's very immature.

Maybe I was wrong to call this update garbage, but since I've posted you guys have done all the things I was complaining about in my second post. This isn't so much about bugs in the game as it is an issue with how you treat the players. Take a page from Duggles and don't treat every frustration or complaint about your game as a personal attack. Also it seems like acting aggressively is the only way to get your attention because you've ignored Buckethead's problem among other posters in this thread but are lining up to dog pile me.

Sorry for sounding so condescending but I don't know how else to get it across to you. Go ahead an dismiss me as an angry idiot who doesn't know shit but at least take away from this that players are frustrated and are feeling alienated from you, the devs.

[ceribik]

With the linux client, when running at 1920x1080p the MOTD or scoreboard text doesn't display.

Missing bitmap font: gfx\vgui\fonts\1920_Primary Button Text.tga
Missing bitmap font: gfx\vgui\fonts\1920_CommandMenu Text.tga
Missing bitmap font: gfx\vgui\fonts\1920_Scoreboard Text.tga
Missing bitmap font: gfx\vgui\fonts\1920_Scoreboard Title Text.tga
Missing bitmap font: gfx\vgui\fonts\1920_Scoreboard Small Text.tga
Missing bitmap font: gfx\vgui\fonts\1920_Title Font.tga

I assume I could just copy over one of the other resolution's fonts but I'm not sure how well that will scale.

[Sniper]

I wouldn't act aggressively if this is the first time this sort of thing has happened, but it's not. I am working with years of frustrations so I apologize for snapping but I'm very upset over how the dev team handles problems.

And I am not just speaking for myself here, I am speaking for several players who are friends but are too afraid to ask you guys something because of how hostel you can get when someone disagrees with you. It's like if we respond with anything other than undying praise for you, you guys go into this whole mellow dramatic mode of "I don't know why we even work on this game if all your gonna do is yell at us" and "We're doing this in our free time, you're lucky you've gotten as much as you have". It's very immature.

Maybe I was wrong to call this update garbage, but since I've posted you guys have done all the things I was complaining about in my second post. This isn't so much about bugs in the game as it is an issue with how you treat the players. Take a page from Duggles and don't treat every frustration or complaint about your game as a personal attack. Also it seems like acting aggressively is the only way to get your attention because you've ignored Buckethead's problem among other posters in this thread but are lining up to dog pile me.

Sorry for sounding so condescending but I don't know how else to get it across to you. Go ahead an dismiss me as an angry idiot who doesn't know shit but at least take away from this that players are frustrated and are feeling alienated from you, the devs.

Hmm. I think you're probably reading into things a bit too far. Re-read what was said, I don't think we're being unreasonable here.

Please understand that we're humans too. If you act like we're a company that owes you something, you're going to be in for a surprise.

The frustration that I'm seeing is pretty obvious from your post. However, when you say things like this:

Well then fix problems! svc_bad is the biggest, glaring problem in Sven Co-op today that affects everyone and it seems like it's not even on your radar even though it's been mentioned in this thread and numerous other times.

... people stop caring about what you have to say. You look like someone that just wants to vent your frustration rather than contribute something to the conversation.

If you had read the changelog and noticed that we fixed three causes of SVC_BAD (we delayed the release to try to fix this issue permanently), you definitely wouldn't have said what you just did.

So, again, if you want to have an attitude about how we're terrible for not fixing all of your problems, we'll dish it right back. We're not here to serve you - however, if you work with us, we'll try to do what we can.

P.S.

No one on the team hates you. Let's just make that clear right now.

[m0u$3[uz]]

Heh svc_bad is not fixed my friend we still get it on misfire's

[JPolito]

Heh svc_bad is not fixed my friend we still get it on misfire's

It would help if people reported this sort of thing. We're not able to test every possible in-game situation on our end, and we need as much information as we can get to tackle obscure bugs like this. What map was running? What plugins were running? What was happening at the moment that the error occurred? What was the message list in the console? Give us information or we can't help you.

As for demos suddenly not working, I gave up on demos in favor of recorded footage as an AVI file long ago when I realized that literally any code update seemed to make old demos unplayable. I guess this is a wake up call for you. Sorry you had to find out this way. But don't accuse us of breaking demos just to spite you.

[Green Astronauts]

I see a lot of players saying "svc_bad hasn't been fixed" while the changelog clearly states three separate occurences of it have been fixed (great job, if you ask me).
However, that doesn't imply the bug is gone completely, as mentioned over and over and over again by developers in this very thread.

So, for those of you still getting the svc_bad problem, consider adding the following information to your bug report(s):

• Was the server running on a Windows machine or a Linux machine? Specify the exact operating system.
• Was the server a listenserver or a dedicated server? In the case of a dedicated server: GUI-based or console-based?
• Did the server launch with any specific launch parameters (things like -num_edicts #, -heapsize #, ...)?
• What map did it happen on?
• How many players were in-game (roughly)?
• Was the server running Metamod-P? If so, which plugins?
• Was the server running AMX Mod X? If so, which plugins?
• Was the server running EntMod? If so, which plugins?
• Was the server running any non map-specific AngelScript plugins? If so, which plugins?
• Have any of the above plugins been modified? If so, how exactly?
• Did the error occur during mapchange?
• Did the error occur when a player did something specific/unusual? If so, what exactly?
• Can I provide a console log* of when it happened?
• Have I worded my bug report in a normal, polite manner or am I acting like a little bitch whose only apparent goal is to insult the developers?

*How to do this: Type condump in the console directly after the crash, then look in your \svencoop\ folder for the file condump000.txt (or condump001.txt, condump002.txt, ...).

I hope this helps. Edit: JPolito beat me by three minutes >.>

While I'm on the subject of bug reports:
1) I can't seem to drop shotgun ammo and assault rifle ammo when playing in classic mode. Works fine in non-classic mode though.
2) In hl_c16_a1 (the first level of Interloper) the stationary floating island, with the ammo container on top of it, does not possess a third clipping hull. Or, in normal English: if you stand on this brush, nothing is wrong, but the instant you crouch you will fall through. Likely cause: malformed brush in the map source.

And four questions:
1) Is there any way to 'unlink' in-game microphone volume and sound effects volume? If I turn the volume up (to hear other talking players) the gunshots and explosions also just get louder.
2) Is there any way / are there any plans to make dropping of secondary ammo possible? I know this only affects the assault rifle (classic mode) and the M16 (non-classic mode) but it'd be nice to be able to drop AR grenades.
3) Are there still plans to increase the maximum resolution (not size; resolution) of player decals? I read about this in this thread and it doesn't have priority, obviously, but I'm just curious. Similar question for animated sprays.
4) What exactly does the displacer tertiary fire mode do? Is it simply a beefed-up version of the primary fire or is there also some teleporter special added, like the secondary fire?

[AdamR]

And four questions:
1) Is there any way to 'unlink' in-game microphone volume and sound effects volume? If I turn the volume up (to hear other talking players) the gunshots and explosions also just get louder.

2) Is there any way / are there any plans to make dropping of secondary ammo possible? I know this only affects the assault rifle (classic mode) and the M16 (non-classic mode) but it'd be nice to be able to drop AR grenades.

3) Are there still plans to increase the maximum resolution (not size; resolution) of player decals? I read about this in this thread and it doesn't have priority, obviously, but I'm just curious. Similar question for animated sprays.

1) I believe CVAR "voice_scale" can scale the volume of incoming voice in relation to the game volume. Not 100% if this is FMOD compatible but in theory setting this CVAR to 2 means the incoming voice should be double the volume of game sounds, and 0.5 should be half. While it's still linked to volume you can at least define a relative difference. As far as FMOD goes the volume difference might not be exact as sounds produced by FMOD seemed to be a bit quieter than those produced by the engine.

2) That is probably something nobody has thought about but doesn't sound like a huge thing to implement. I'd have to remind myself of the current code that handles primary ammo drops to come up with a better answer.

3) It was discussed a little bit but hasn't really been looked into. Sprays are just textures in the same way any brush texture is, and the real world size of it depends on the scale of the texture it's placed on. They follow the resolution/scale of the underlying texture rather than have their own independant resolution/scale, which could mean placing higher DPI sprays while being the same real world size as current DPI sprays tricky or not doable without some terrible hack. Animated sprays are probably easier to implement, but also because they are just textures they'd follow the same static rules of no more than 10 frames playing at 10 FPS.



Also thanks for your understanding on what we've done about svc_bad. That is exactly the kind of information we need. For example one of the most common occurrences of svc_bad internally was specifically on map hplanet when playing on a Linux server. As this was for no obvious reason a toxic combination this is was the primary staging environment for testing out any changes we made. We ended up in a situation where we could no longer replicate svc_bad in these conditions with up to 12 people playing.

What you've done there is posted in a manner very appropriate and constructive towards a group of people doing something as a hobby, but you knew that. Thanks for your feedback.

[DrRhubarb]

How about making a sticky thread starting with the general posting guide Green Astronauts posted for reporting svc_bad occurences?
To have them in one place instead of thrown around in multiple threads.
/justanidea

[Buckethead]

So, for those of you still getting the svc_bad problem, consider adding the following information to your bug report(s):

• Was the server running on a Windows machine or a Linux machine? Specify the exact operating system.
• Was the server a listenserver or a dedicated server? In the case of a dedicated server: GUI-based or console-based?
• Did the server launch with any specific launch parameters (things like -num_edicts #, -heapsize #, ...)?
• What map did it happen on?
• How many players were in-game (roughly)?
• Was the server running Metamod-P? If so, which plugins?
• Was the server running AMX Mod X? If so, which plugins?
• Was the server running EntMod? If so, which plugins?
• Was the server running any non map-specific AngelScript plugins? If so, which plugins?
• Have any of the above plugins been modified? If so, how exactly?
• Did the error occur during mapchange?
• Did the error occur when a player did something specific/unusual? If so, what exactly?
• Can I provide a console log* of when it happened?
• Have I worded my bug report in a normal, polite manner or am I acting like a little bitch whose only apparent goal is to insult the developers?

This is all well and good, but above most players ability or patience to report manually. Parameters for a bug report such as this would be better handled via some sort of bug reporter built into Sven that can collect most of this data automatically.

[SourceSkyBoxer]

Wow new upgrade I never see taht I am sorry I am busy from my work....

I will check if you promise us about -/+131072 without problem? How does flash light work outside of -/+32768???
Thanks!

[Buckethead]

Why is this version of Sven deleting client and server copies of Sector E by Cryokeen?

I understand that he asked to have his maps removed from the game, but I was under the impression that he meant he didn't want them distributed as part of the Sven Co-op installer.

Surely we should be allowed to keep any copies of the maps that we already had before the request was made.

[H2Whoa]

Correct, the Sector E series have only been removed from the game's official map listing.
You're still able to download and play it. It wouldn't make much sense if the map had to be removed everywhere.

[Nih]

I believe that's simply how the Steam content delivery system works. If a file is removed from the game, it gets removed from everyone's game. People are free to distribute the map here on the forum and elsewhere though.

[Green Astronauts]

1) I believe CVAR "voice_scale" can scale the volume of incoming voice in relation to the game volume.

Perfect! Was looking for something like this for so long.
Thanks for your answers.

[SourceSkyBoxer]

Hahaha Sven Coop still has bug.

But compilers of SC have always invalid brush error. If i create longest hallway than it happens hlbsp says error 6 illegal brush and suggest: "Howto Fix: Find the invalid brush. Any imported prefabs, carved brushes, or vertex manipulated brushes should be suspect"

Why does Sven Coop Development lie us again? Please say truth! We are not stupid to liable game. We want you are good game creators. Please promise us! Do not lie me!

I load compiled map into Sven Coop than Sven Coop crashed if my map is longest simple hallway than it happens crashing of sc 5.04

[Green Astronauts]

Hahaha [...]

You can always use Jackhammer.