Thread: Gears of War 2 lagging?

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  1. #1
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    Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quick question. I just installed Gears of War 2 and it seems to lag a little when I move. I do not see any off textures, although I do get my suit recharged from a caedboard box...

    But it seems to lag even with out any on screen action. My laptop is not the best, but I can play HL2 (before the updated graphics) at full every thing. I can play the two episodes of highest resolution, but not with all the nifty extras, although I can do a few.

    With that being said, why is GoW2 lagging on my machine? I mean I know there is an Osprey flying around, a bunch of nice looking textures and open out door areas, but it is not HL2. Does it have to do with the map, the newest version of SC, my laptop or what? The very first area of Crystal also caused me lag and there was no action at all in that spawn area. Thank you.

    Edit: Initially I put this in map showcase, since you could ask questions. But I thought better of it, deleted it and put it here instead.

  2. #2
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Is there a map called GoW2 or are you referring to a game not related to Sven Co-op?
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  3. #3
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    Is there a map called GoW2 or are you referring to a game not related to Sven Co-op?
    http://scmapdb.com/map:gears-of-war-2

    The Half-Life engine runs in OpenGL immediate mode, which is the bane of most laptop GPUs. The map is probably rendering too much stuff at once.

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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    http://scmapdb.com/map:gears-of-war-2

    The Half-Life engine runs in OpenGL immediate mode, which is the bane of most laptop GPUs. The map is probably rendering too much stuff at once.
    Right, but is there a fix/work around for that though? I mean if and when I buy a better more powerful laptop, would that help at all? Or because it is still not OpenGL I will always have that issue? Only two maps out of all the ones I tried does that, so it is not bad, although I am playing all these off line at the moment.

    (Actually Coldburn did it as well, but I figured that was due to all the fog and tricked out textures...) But it would be nice to play without any issues especially if I can run newer and more advanced games with out any issues with in reason. Thank you.

  5. #5
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    There could also be too many active NPCs navigating the map. Either way, there isn't really a workaround. If flashlights lag you out, you can disable dynamic lights, although I'm on a mobile device and can't remember the command.

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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    You made it a point to say most laptops... do PCs have the same issue? I mean is it the dedicated graphics card? I think I had Nvida back in the day for my old PC, but that thing could hardly play HL2 on it's lowest settings and mods even worse so.
    Last edited by Lamar; 17-11-2016 at 03:51 PM.

  7. #7
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Desktop PCs have no issue unless they are running the game on integrated video chips. Integrated video in laptops can play Half-Life 2 much better than Half-Life 1 because of the OpenGL immediate mode issue.

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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    Desktop PCs have no issue unless they are running the game on integrated video chips.
    The only PCs that have no issues are those using Nvidia GPUs. All AMD GPUs run like crap on SC running maps with styles lights or too high w_poly.

    I've tested a large number of AMD cards spanning several generations:

    Discrete:
    - R9 280x
    - R9 270x
    - R5 240
    - HD 5870
    - HD 5450
    - HD 4850
    - HD 4650
    - HD 3450
    - HD 2400
    - x1900 XT
    - x800 GTO

    Integrated (APU)
    - HD 7550D (A8-5600k)
    - HD 7560D (A10-5800k)
    - HD 8570D (A8-6500)

    And they all exhibit the same issue of running like crap when styles lights are used. The only cards that didn't have problems were the older 9000 series like the Radeon 9800 Pro which ran decent unless you encountered maps with absurd w_poly.

    The few Nvidia cards I own (7800GTX, 8800GTS G92, 9800GTX, GTS250) all run SC just fine on every map I've thrown at them.

    OP, if you want to get gears of war 2 and other maps that use styles lights, set "r_dynamic 0" in the console. This will disable styles lights but it will also kill your flashlight so you may have to make a toggle for it.

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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Running it on my R9 280x:


  10. #10
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Yes, my old HD 7850 also lagged horribly with some maps dipping down to 5fps or even less.

  11. #11
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    1500 wpoly was about the maximum before the renderer craps out, last I checked. Looks like that area is over by quite a bit.

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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    1500 wpoly was about the maximum before the renderer craps out, last I checked. Looks like that area is over by quite a bit.
    No. It's purely an issue with styles lights.

    With styles lights enabled:


    Notice the massive difference in frame rendering times. When a styles light is currently on a set style, you get a normal frame rate despite the high w_poly. The second it tries to change state, it grenades the frame rate because it takes so long to render. The massive swing from 47 fps to 11 fps makes the game unplayable since so many things are tied to frame time.

    The worst frame is 81 ms while the best frame is 13 ms, or a 68 ms difference. Basically the ping from an average latency player to the server to render one frame.

    With styles lights disabled:


    And with styles lights off, the huge frame time difference all but disappears. The sawtooth framerate makes the game unplayable because so many things in the engine are tied to frame rendering. At low frame rates, weapons, AI and map entities like trains stop working properly. With it switching back and forth so fast, the engine gets confused and nothing works right.

  13. #13
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    'styles lights' ?

    Edit: Oh. Dynamic lights.

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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Hmmm... I have an AMD10-8700 Radeon R6, 10 Computer Cores 4C+6G 1.80GHz 8GB RAM 64-bit ...

    I knew it was cheap or "cheaper" at least, since I only paid about $250 brand new as I recall. But I can not complain much about it, it has served me well so far, even being able to play SC 99% of the time and HL2 all of the time, although sadly I do not see a lot of free mods like HL1 had. Now if only I could play Everquest on this thing I would be extremely happy.

    I will try the light trick and see what happens. Thank you.
    Last edited by Lamar; 18-11-2016 at 03:12 AM.

  15. #15
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Not sure why you've had such bad luck with an R9 280X there. I have that GPU and don't get the performance issues you described. Turning off lights makes only a trivial improvement.

    The card I have: http://www.sapphiretech.com/productd...C1E7E&lang=eng

    However I have noticed on Minecraft and Wurm that if I turn off particular features (like shadows, bloom, and sun glare) the frame rate boosts a lot (like ~40 to ~100), so I don't think the issue is with us specifically. Other details like texture quality and model quality don't seem to make much dent. When someone has like a year of free time spare a new renderer could be made haha.
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Well before I even posted I had the feeling that it might be the OpenGL from my dealings of HL1 before and the fact that that is the only option in SC. . However I thought if that truly was the issue, why then do any of the maps work?

    Regardless the map works great now, I do not notice any slow down at all. The funny thing is, I do not notice anything different either, provided it is turned on and off with a "1" or a "0" respectfully. I still see everything I could before while turning it on and off that I am aware of. The only thing I did notice, as someone posted, was that I could not use my flashlight. But I did not see anything special in the lighting. Not the explosions, muzzle flashes, the enemy certainly were not using flashlights unless that is their new tactic to get my game to lag me.

    I also tried it for Crystal1 and had no lag either and again I did not notice a change in graphics or light what so ever.

    Is OpenGL making the checks on lights regardless whether I can see them or not being rendered and that is why it lags, or is there details I just am not noticing when I take them off? Also the map uses it's own lights. Why when turning off dynamic lighting my flashlight is then useless, but lights from maps can still be seen? Although I notice if I am right on an object I can still see it with dynamic lights off, but flashlight on in dark places.

  17. #17
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamar View Post
    Why when turning off dynamic lighting my flashlight is then useless, but lights from maps can still be seen?
    Because these lights are not dynamic.

  18. #18
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    The CVAR will affect the appearance of both semi and fully dynamic lights differently.

    Semi-dynamic lights are those that are switchable in maps, for example the ones throughout Polar Rescue, and also any flickering/pulsing lights. These are only semi-dynamic because they just consist of multiple map compiled light patches being switched rather than the more complex calculations of real dynamic lights. The result of this means semi-dynamic lights will always be on and without flicker/pulse/etc.

    Fully dynamic lights are those produced by entities or game code, for example your flashlight, electric crowbar glow, muzzle flashes, etc. These require a more complex calculation as they have to adjust all existing light patches in a map and cannot be pre-compiled to be switched on/off as easily. The result of this means fully-dynamic lights will never be visible.
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post

    Fully dynamic lights are those produced by entities or game code, for example your flashlight, electric crowbar glow, muzzle flashes, etc. These require a more complex calculation as they have to adjust all existing light patches in a map and cannot be pre-compiled to be switched on/off as easily. The result of this means fully-dynamic lights will never be visible.
    Well I can still see muzzle flashes even with dynamic turned off. Or do you mean the affect of what the flash of the muzzle would have otherwise occured was turned off, as in no light was reflected onto me or them from the muzzle flashes? Or the muzzle flash was supposed to be much prettier, but since it can not be displayed, it went to the default muzzle flash?

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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    'styles lights' ?

    Edit: Oh. Dynamic lights.
    Yes, because the renderer is absolute dog shit garbage. Sniper is a manager, not a good coder, look at Half-Life 1 online or offline, it run's on a potato. I'm guessing Sniper's code looks like horse shit garbage too LOL. I mean you guys get the sourcecode for Half-Life 1, (3.0 runs a lot better btw than 5.0 dog shit version) and you can't even make the game run better than before? Constant bugs and glitchs everywhere, I also happen to know you guys have several thousands of dollars of donations and I myself recieved a small donation from Sven Viking himself (it was like $20-$45 can't remember) so you guys always saying this mod is FREE but you guys make a profit off this shit and you know it.

    Maybe it's just a "rainy day fund" or it just "pays for the servers" but you guys have completely corrupted Sven Co-op to the core and don't give a fuck about the player base anymore. Your precious mod only runs well on Extremely Modern High End Gear or Shitty NVidea units. Holy shit LOL you guys are literally raping the dead corpse of the half-life 1 engine. You had your chance with Solokiller, someone with enough free time and energy to actually help rewrite your precious Snipers dog shit code, and holy shit, you guys fucking fired him because he hurt your friends feelings. Because your fwiends with Sniper IRL. so you guys fucked over an entire community of hundreds of thousands all over the world with lower end PC's because you guys want to stick with your horrible shitty coder Sniper. WOW LOL.

    You guys have literally replaced Off-Topic with a SJW Safe-Space (chod's pub) wow lol, look at that place, literally no one posts there, it's completely devoid of any joy or spontaneity, and you guys lock threads you don't agree with. WOW LOL SO PROGRESSIVE!!! WHEW LAD

    anyway feel free to ban me again, Trump fucking won you libertards 4 years of Keen Rule, enjoy it

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    When someone has like a year of free time spare a new renderer could be made haha.
    That is hilarious! It's almost like you've had better coders than your lead one for years.. that had plenty of ideas and freetime.. but you fired them all!

    Oh wait im sorry "they left voluntarily" haha It's almost like your team has a systemic problem of keeping the bad coders and firing the good ones.. no that can't be it right?

    Sven Co-op has been going down hill for a long time now, just look at the Steam Charts, less and less people are playing it, because it's just old dog shit.
    Last edited by AdamR; 19-11-2016 at 05:32 AM.

  21. #21
    Princess liz ^.^ m0u$3[uz]'s Avatar
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpwonYOULOST:) View Post
    Yes, because the renderer is absolute dog shit garbage. Sniper is a manager, not a good coder, look at Half-Life 1 online or offline, it run's on a potato. I'm guessing Sniper's code looks like horse shit garbage too LOL. I mean you guys get the sourcecode for Half-Life 1, (3.0 runs a lot better btw than 5.0 dog shit version) and you can't even make the game run better than before? Constant bugs and glitchs everywhere, I also happen to know you guys have several thousands of dollars of donations and I myself recieved a small donation from Sven Viking himself (it was like $20-$45 can't remember) so you guys always saying this mod is FREE but you guys make a profit off this shit and you know it.

    Maybe it's just a "rainy day fund" or it just "pays for the servers" but you guys have completely corrupted Sven Co-op to the core and don't give a fuck about the player base anymore. Your precious mod only runs well on Extremely Modern High End Gear or Shitty NVidea units. Holy shit LOL you guys are literally raping the dead corpse of the half-life 1 engine. You had your chance with Solokiller, someone with enough free time and energy to actually help rewrite your precious Snipers dog shit code, and holy shit, you guys fucking fired him because he hurt your friends feelings. Because your fwiends with Sniper IRL. so you guys fucked over an entire community of hundreds of thousands all over the world with lower end PC's because you guys want to stick with your horrible shitty coder Sniper. WOW LOL.

    You guys have literally replaced Off-Topic with a SJW Safe-Space (chod's pub) wow lol, look at that place, literally no one posts there, it's completely devoid of any joy or spontaneity, and you guys lock threads you don't agree with. WOW LOL SO PROGRESSIVE!!! WHEW LAD

    anyway feel free to ban me again, Trump fucking won you libertards 4 years of Keen Rule, enjoy it



    That is hilarious! It's almost like you've had better coders than your lead one for years.. that had plenty of ideas and freetime.. but you fired them all!

    Oh wait im sorry "they left voluntarily" haha It's almost like your team has a systemic problem of keeping the bad coders and firing the good ones.. no that can't be it right?

    Sven Co-op has been going down hill for a long time now, just look at the Steam Charts, less and less people are playing it, because it's just old dog shit.
    Misfire's server always complains about the developers and how bad they are
    Last edited by AdamR; 19-11-2016 at 05:34 AM.

  22. #22
    What a beautiful duwang. Metal's Avatar
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpwonYOULOST:) View Post
    Yes, because the renderer is absolute dog shit garbage. Sniper is a manager, not a good coder, look at Half-Life 1 online or offline, it run's on a potato. I'm guessing Sniper's code looks like horse shit garbage too LOL. I mean you guys get the sourcecode for Half-Life 1, (3.0 runs a lot better btw than 5.0 dog shit version) and you can't even make the game run better than before? Constant bugs and glitchs everywhere, I also happen to know you guys have several thousands of dollars of donations and I myself recieved a small donation from Sven Viking himself (it was like $20-$45 can't remember) so you guys always saying this mod is FREE but you guys make a profit off this shit and you know it.
    Sniper's mismanagement isn't really the topic of this thread, though it should be pointed out that a lot of decisions are made by either him or the Sven Team as a whole that seem to ignore optimization. Lower end machines and especially those with AMD parts has severe issues with Sven Co-op. The latest gen "Intel HD Graphics" can run CS:GO at a solid 30fps but can't run Sven? I find that hard to believe without some catastrophic oversights being made. As far as money goes, they (the developers) should be entitled donations because it's a painstaking process to modify someone else's code; that being said I can't support donating anything more until the majority of the community's demands are met and the declining playerbase is resolved.

    Realistically the Sven Team needs to expand if they can't meet the standard of running on low end and or AMD machines, I'd recommend getting in contact with some of the former developers you've burned bridges with. Also where is the linux client release?

    Quote Originally Posted by m0u$3[uz] View Post
    Misfire's server always complains about the developers and how bad they are
    Given that Misfire's Servers are literally 90% of the current playerbase for Sven Co-op, it seems like a major oversight to not cater to their needs/desires.
    The rule of the game, is that we all are the same.

  23. #23
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    I'm just going to come out and say that Gears of War 2 is one of the most horribly optimized maps ever created, as has been known since its release, and you're using it as a basis to complain about poor game performance. This is a renderer from 1998. It barely runs as it is. Get over it.

  24. #24
    Soundguy DrRhubarb's Avatar
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    Re: Gears of War 2 lagging?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    This is a renderer from 1998. It barely runs as it is. Get over it.
    hahahaha

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