Thread: Help needed!

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  1. #1
    trigger_BlackShadow BlackShadowX's Avatar
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    Help needed!

    Hello everyone, long time no see!

    Hope everyone is doing great...

    Let's skip the chit chat and pass to the main thing.

    I have a project to convert Episode 1 of They Hunger to Source Engine, but i need map files... Is there anyone got Hammer files for Episode 1 (they1-15) only?

    Or is there anyway to contact with Neil Manke to ask his permission for this? I couldn't find any contact information such as e-mail, etc... of him.

  2. #2
    Administrator Hezus's Avatar  
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    Re: Help needed!

    Neil Manke hasn't been seen on the interwebs for a long time. From what I can dig up, the SC team has had the source RMF's since 2002/2003 so I doubt anyone had any recent contact with him here.

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    Re: Help needed!

    To do a Source conversion, you'll have to remake the entire map anyway so just use a map decompiler.

  4. #4
    trigger_BlackShadow BlackShadowX's Avatar
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    Re: Help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hezus View Post
    Neil Manke hasn't been seen on the interwebs for a long time. From what I can dig up, the SC team has had the source RMF's since 2002/2003 so I doubt anyone had any recent contact with him here.

    I see, it's impossible to contact with him then.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    To do a Source conversion, you'll have to remake the entire map anyway so just use a map decompiler.
    You don't need to re-make whole level, you can de-compile map and run it on Source. But you have to edit triggers and scripted sequences. And a few bugs too.

    Here's a little video about my progress.


  5. #5
    snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks Green Astronauts's Avatar
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    Re: Help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadowX View Post
    You don't need to re-make whole level, you can de-compile map and run it on Source. But you have to edit triggers and scripted sequences. And a few bugs too.
    There's no perfect Goldsource map decompiler. Hell, not even a semi-perfect one. No matter which one you use (debsp, Winbspc, BSPTwoMap, BSP Viewer's built-in .map exporter, ...), they all do a half-assed job at best. You'll end up with dozens or even hundreds of malformed solids (some so bad that they won't even load to begin with) and skewed/perpendicular textures. You'll really need to use whatever information you can get from a decompiled Goldsource map to rebuild the map brush by brush, as GiGaBiTe hinted at.

    I checked your video and at around 00:10 you can see a very thin diagonal brush on the left-hand side of the tree. This is just one example of the many deformed brushes you've gotten by decompiling. Another example is that tree at 01:14. That's not how it's supposed to look.

    Which decompiler did you use?
    Last edited by Green Astronauts; 21-11-2017 at 02:02 PM.

  6. #6
    trigger_BlackShadow BlackShadowX's Avatar
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    Re: Help needed!

    I know, since GoldSource doesn't save brush information, it's always pain in the ass de-compiling maps. I used Winbspc and BSP2Map. As you know both de-compilers performs different depending on map. I used Winbspc on that map cause BSP2MAP de-compiled horribly. And yes, i didn't fixed whole bugs in map. It was just for showoff.

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    Re: Help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadowX View Post
    You don't need to re-make whole level, you can de-compile map and run it on Source. But you have to edit triggers and scripted sequences. And a few bugs too.
    You must have a map decompiler that nobody knows about that can make 100% perfect decompiles, otherwise there is no truth to your statement.

    bsptwomap.exe makes 1 unit thick brushes to represent faces. It can't deal with holes in walls/floors/ceilings (halls to rooms, skyboxes, water, etc.) and results in garbage. It also chokes on older decompile tools, especially on maps compiled with the original modified Quake compile tools and crashes. Malformed/complex brushes often result in infinite length brushes that are a nightmare to deal with.

    winbspc.exe takes the opposite approach and carves the entire level volume out of a large block. This is more accurate, but results in thousands of brushes that often crash Hammer.

    bspviewer.exe has the same issues as bsptwomap, but can make variable thickness brushes and has a bit better detection of holes in ceilings/walls/floors.

    Unless I'm missing one, those are the only three map decompilers that work with Half-Life, and none of them make compilable sources. The Source compile tools are very forgiving, so technically you can compile the resulting mess, but it'll be a fullbright horrible pile of crap.

    Unlike the Source engine, the Half-Life engine doesn't retain any information about the brushwork that made up the map. All you have are polygons, so creating a decompiler that can make the original source RMF from a BSP is pretty much impossible.

  8. #8
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    Re: Help needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadowX View Post
    You don't need to re-make whole level, you can de-compile map and run it on Source. But you have to edit triggers and scripted sequences. And a few bugs too.
    There is no such decompiler that can make a perfect decompile, as you've said in a below post.

    bsptwomap.exe makes 1 unit thick brushes to represent faces. It can't deal with holes in walls/floors/ceilings (halls to rooms, skyboxes, water, etc.) and results in garbage. It also chokes on older decompile tools, especially on maps compiled with the original modified Quake compile tools and crashes. Malformed/complex brushes often result in infinite length brushes that are a nightmare to deal with.

    winbspc.exe takes the opposite approach and carves the entire level volume out of a large block. This is more accurate, but results in thousands of brushes that often crash Hammer.

    bspviewer.exe has the same issues as bsptwomap, but can make variable thickness brushes and has a bit better detection of holes in ceilings/walls/floors.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackShadowX View Post
    I know, since GoldSource doesn't save brush information, it's always pain in the ass de-compiling maps. I used Winbspc and BSP2Map. As you know both de-compilers performs different depending on map. I used Winbspc on that map cause BSP2MAP de-compiled horribly. And yes, i didn't fixed whole bugs in map. It was just for showoff.
    If you really want to do a source port, you should use source features to make it look better, like displacements. Having the old geometry in a more modern engine just looks cheesy.

    Also, you do know that Source supports texture lighting? You don't need to use light entities to fake texture lighting, it just adds to the cheesiness. Texture lights work the same in Source, you just add the material name to lights.rad and specify it in the compile tools. You may have to move it to the root drive folder and specify its path in vrad because of a bug that makes it use a fixed internal lights.rad version.

    Another thing you should do is make the textures have $selfillum with an alpha mask so that the bright parts of the texture are lit more than darker parts of the texture.

    Here's an example of how texture lighting looks on lava:


    Or texture lighting with $selfillum alpha mask:

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