Thread: The great debate about Metamod support

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  1. #26
    Donated 15NS$ for Sven's Holiday at the Bahamas Puchi's Avatar  
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    Re: SCXPM source code + server & map configurations release (AMXX)

    I didn't know people distributed MM/AMXX with their maps.
    that sounds terrible actually
    Do it with passion, or not at all.
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  2. #27
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    Re: SCXPM source code + server & map configurations release (AMXX)

    You have to distribute the AS scripts with the map you use them in, you fail to make a valid point.

  3. #28
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    Re: SCXPM source code + server & map configurations release (AMXX)

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    You have to distribute the AS scripts with the map you use them in, you fail to make a valid point.
    MM/AMXX requires modification to the game, AS does not. Too many times I see people doing this by adjusting "liblist.gam" making it permanent. (No map should ever do that.)

    None of this changes the team's stance on Metamod though.

    • It's third party.
    • We don't support it.
    • The Metamod team, or whoever wants to fork their project, should be requesting things like engine headers from us.
    • We are happy to provide such information to make Metamod work but we are not diverting our time for it.


    Those points are currently indisputable. (They are what they are.)

    As mentioned, Metamod is open source, so any of you here can pick up a fork for Sven Co-op, so please do.
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  4. #29
    Donated 15NS$ for Sven's Holiday at the Bahamas Puchi's Avatar  
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    Re: SCXPM source code + server & map configurations release (AMXX)

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    You have to distribute the AS scripts with the map you use them in, you fail to make a valid point.
    Well, Adam said it already:
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    MM/AMXX requires modification to the game, AS does not.
    Do it with passion, or not at all.
    Do not say everything you know. Know everything you say.
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  5. #30
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Heh yeah, saying AS is bad because you have to send the script with the map is like saying models and sounds are bad because you have to distribute them with the map. Including an AS file is no more complicated than including any other map resource.
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  6. #31
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    So what I got is AS is for mappers and MM is for modders. Otherwise those last 3 or so things said were just kind of like "hey i said something vague *drops the mic* :>"

    There's lots of things you can do with either of them but say I wanted to make like working bots that used a new form of navigation system: yeah I'm going for MM.
    But say I just want to make a map and mod the models/weapons, I'd use AS if I wanted to.
    Both "mod" the game.
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  7. #32
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    Heh yeah, saying AS is bad because you have to send the script with the map is like saying models and sounds are bad because you have to distribute them with the map. Including an AS file is no more complicated than including any other map resource.
    Yeah, sending AS with a map is totally the same as sending a sound, model or WAD; Except not.

    AS is code just like an AMXX plugin, and in the developers own words "features are added every release." This means the chance of something in the AS script made for a map now has a high chance of breaking in the future and rendering the map unplayable.

  8. #33
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    This means the chance of something in the AS script made for a map now has a high chance of breaking in the future and rendering the map unplayable.
    That has happened before and it will probably happen again, the original AS implementation wasn't that great.

    I have updated my released content before to support the newer changes, such as: m_pPlayer now being m_hPlayer. And I'll continue to do so until JS is live.

  9. #34
    Still learning wolf-3d's Avatar  
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    ... This means the chance of something in the AS script made for a map now has a high chance of breaking in the future and rendering the map unplayable.
    Of course, the same also applies to MM/AMXX in terms of rendering maps unplayable.

    The real issue here is can the Community find and put together a "group of people" with sufficient time and skills to revive and develop MM/AMXX ? (e.g. perhaps using swampdog repository).
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  10. #35
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by wolf-3d View Post
    Of course, the same also applies to MM/AMXX in terms of rendering maps unplayable.

    The real issue here is can the Community find and put together a "group of people" with sufficient time and skills to revive and develop MM/AMXX ? (e.g. perhaps using swampdog repository).
    This kind of stands out to me as you not knowing what you're talking about. 1) who is swampdog? 2) once you find out who swampdog is, all he did was modify this using config files (rather he did not even modify it). In fact you can modify any skill off the .sma file and recompile it without using map-specific configs; i.e. if you feel, like him, that some scxpm plugin skills are useless and unneeded, it might break balance of certain maps, etc., and thus you can mod it any way you want OR make map configs that the plugin can read as he did. Scxpm is arguably not even the most important (being a plugin of a plugin of a mod).

    I can "update MM" myself if it breaks in like 1 hour dud (it doesn't take a "group", lol wtf, this kind of points at your own programming competence. Sometimes your "hard" is someone's "easy").

    The point is understanding "why it broke" and why you have to fork off into something that technically can accomplish only less. Debugging/Reversing is still more effort than copying files.

    A new mapper or experienced mapper might enjoy AS, but no examples of MM server plugins with map-specific configs were given such as Stripper2 and Ripent; many times both can do the same type of modding, and MM even globally so (specific mods across all maps).

    It's pretty clear the same exact things can be done by both, but MM can do a little more, and so as to avoid repeating myself, I'd just say yo scroll up or something.

    Hand-in-hand with what I already said. But I don't deal well with people whom can be told something many times and then still not "get it" or think they are "hawter than they are" so whatever, I'll stop fact trolling here.
    Last edited by HL2 RULEZ; 10-11-2017 at 06:10 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Cool thread! Looks like there are various advantages to using AS or MM, I think if the Sven Team isn't going to support MM though it should probably be more open about what changes they have made in the engine so it would be easier for people to fix Meta Mod. I mean, if 80%+ servers still use Meta Mod and have to work around it breaking, you could at least make it easier for them to fix it. Good discussion.

  12. #37
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by regretful View Post
    though it should probably be more open about what changes they have made in the engine so it would be easier for people to fix Meta Mod.
    You missed the part where Geckon said just contact him and he will provide you with whatever you need to fix MM
    Do it with passion, or not at all.
    Do not say everything you know. Know everything you say.
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  13. #38
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    You missed the part where Geckon said just contact him and he will provide you with whatever you need to fix MM
    Ah yes sorry! Lot of stuff in this thread. Geckon will help is good news

  14. #39
    Still learning wolf-3d's Avatar  
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    @HL2 RULEZ, Wow another attempt at trolling but you could try harder.
    (Everyone else need not bother reading this, unless they want a "Sarcastic Laugh")

    Dearest HL2 RULEZ, I will try and answer your post, to the best of my abilities, my replies are in [Orange]:
    (Appolgies if the troll was aimed at someone else here, but my post is the one just before yours and I do so much admire your replies.)

    This kind of stands out to me as you not knowing what you're talking about. [Eh, I was posting i.r.o. the Thread "Title" whatever You are talking about does not stand out yet.] 1) who is swampdog? [ IDK, do you?] 2) once you find out who swampdog is, [I have not reason to, however if you did please don't post his SSN No. or any personal info. on the Public Forums.] all he did was modify this [Okay getting an inkling (i.e. a slight knowledge, or a suspicion) of WTF this troll's is about, HL2 RULEZ is it = Post#34 last line"e.g. perhaps ... swapdog ... repository).", Am I correct? Did I win a prize? Dearest HL2 RULEZ, please once more refer to the "Thread Title - Which has been split, or are you Upset per chance because "you not comprehend the meanings of "e.g." and/or "perhaps" ? ] using config files (rather he did not even modify it). [Modified but then did not ? How is that Possible, is swamdog a Magican? ] In fact you can modify any skill off the .sma file [Could I be a "Magician" too ? I daily modify files and then find out I have not.] and recompile it without using map-specific configs; [ Wouldn't I have to Upgrade to Wizard Status, given I would also "not modify" the configs? ] i.e. if you feel, like him, that some scxpm plugin skills are useless and unneeded, [IDK him, so can Feel like him but you maybe you can? Also I can't find him saying that here or in original thread, if that because he is magician? and per chance "said it but didn't"?] it might break balance of certain maps, etc., [Wow as a Tester I will have to look out for this, thanks for the "Heads Up"!] and thus you can mod it any way you want [Wolf thinks "you" means "him" and Immediately mods new engine limits into MM, (without doing any changes)] OR make map configs that the plugin can read as he did. Scxpm is arguably not even the most important [Yeah and unpopular as well!] (being a plugin of a plugin of a mod). [and then the mod became a "Game" but Scxpm still Works! Must Muggle Programmers at work. Opps sorry Wolf is a "New Wizard" and forgot "Muggle" is an insult to Squibs & Normal People, OOPS x2 Sorry "All non-magical people from Magical Families".]

    I can "update MM" myself if it breaks [WTF? "if it breaks" ?, it is broken, that is reason for this thread. Oh wait, do you mean "Modify it but Not" ; gotcha
    10:4 good buddy]
    have said it was in like 1 hour dud [Nuf said, I hear you! U R GrEaT!] Lots(it doesn't take a "group", lol wtf, this kind of points at your own programming competence.[Yeah but NOW I know the "Modify/Not Modify" trick, I will become completent, Please!! Can I add you to my SF and FB ?] Sometimes your "hard" is someone's "easy").[ WTF you know my GF too?]

    The point is understanding "why it broke" [? new Headers, ? New eNtItIeS ] and why you have to fork off into something that technically can accomplish only less. ["have to" boy-O-boy "into something technically less", that sounds like ReAiLy complicated can't I just stick to "Modify but not" ] Debugging/Reversing is still more effort than copying files. [Yeah, "Modify but Not" and then copy? Don't see the point either, that would be like work or something. ]

    A new mapper or experienced mapper might enjoy AS, but no examples of MM server plugins with map-specific configs were given such as Stripper2 and Ripent; many times both can do the same type of modding, and MM even globally so (specific mods across all maps). [HL2 RULEZ.]

    It's pretty clear the same exact things can be done by both, but MM can do a little more, [OOOH "same exact things can be done by both but ... a little more." Can I combine that with "Modify but Not Modify" (or does that make Dangerous Magic?)] and so as to avoid repeating myself,["No - we all want to hear you can fix MM in like and hour, IF Only you thought it was "broken" !] I'd just say yo scroll up or something. [Yeah a "scroll" or "something" is required for strong Magic. But I heard a "wand" is best!]

    Hand-in-hand with what I already said. But I don't deal well with people whom can be told something many times and then still not "get it" [ "Hand-in-Hand.? Yeah "Modify and Not Modify", goes well with "exactly the same but a little more" You are so clever ! HL2 RULEZ.] so whatever, I'll stop fact trolling here.[I heard RW stuck his wand up a trolls nose and it broke. Real bad stuff, can fix broken bones but a wand cannot ... Oh wait "fact trolling" - lols, yeah gotta stick to the facts while you troll. HL2 RULEZ !
    PS: I see you inserted a Reference Quote (Better Late than Never - Eh), [Not that it matters I think I can edit, within 10 min and it will appear as if "I modified without modifying". Have a Brilliant Day !
    Regards
    Wolf-3D

  15. #40
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by regretful View Post
    Cool thread! Looks like there are various advantages to using AS or MM, I think if the Sven Team isn't going to support MM though it should probably be more open about what changes they have made in the engine so it would be easier for people to fix Meta Mod. I mean, if 80%+ servers still use Meta Mod and have to work around it breaking, you could at least make it easier for them to fix it. Good discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    You missed the part where Geckon said just contact him and he will provide you with whatever you need to fix MM
    I've also said numerous times that we can provide the information. The problem is nobody is, which suggests nobody out there wants to work on Metamod at all. (They just want us to do everything for them on a silver plate as usual.)
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  16. #41
    Still learning wolf-3d's Avatar  
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Yes Wolf - Manages to PS/Edit within 10 min. (You ARE a brilliant Teacher HL2 RULEZ).
    No Adam we need to "modify and not modify", plus "Do the exactly the same" "to do a little more".

    PS: Not trolling U Adam. (Just Sayin.)
    Regards
    Wolf-3D

  17. #42
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Tbh that response was so retarded I didn't bother answering. I felt like it literally shows you how dumb you are, so why even bother responding.

    Let's just say sometimes "less yet correct accomplishes a lot more".

    Please learn English so you can understand before posting paragraphs about wizards. Warning given.

    Re-stating #3 (I figured you probably need this):
    What I was stating was "He did not 'modify' the .sma code of the plugin, he just made configs that the compiled .sma code will read based on map.". No need to write 3 paragraphs on 1 sentence you chose to misinterpret based on your own bad language reading skills, talk about wizards, "doing without doing", and ignore the other 99% of it all. My entire post was mostly clarifying/re-stating things already.. if I spend my time answering a really dumb nihilist who misinterprets every sentence then I'll end up in an infinite loop (as I already alluded to). I can only 'dumb down' or over-explain myself so many times before it becomes useless. Tbh not sure if it goes over anyone's head but you made yourself look stupid and then acted like you told a good joke, lol wut.
    Last edited by HL2 RULEZ; 15-11-2017 at 07:38 PM.
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  18. #43
    snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks snarks Green Astronauts's Avatar
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Quote Originally Posted by HL2 RULEZ View Post
    Please Learn english
    *learn
    *English
    In-game name:


    Administrator at the ModRiotGaming servers

  19. #44
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    You are a pretty lowly nobody Green Astronauts, why come in like a 12 year old to critique grammar when it has nothing to do with meaning, the post, or original discussions? Nevermind, won't bother. I just can't resist an easy laugh sometimes, but no need to get caught in a loop with nihilistic nobodies as I said.
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  20. #45
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    Re: The great debate about Metamod support

    Uhhhhhhh... okay. Thread is over.

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