Thread: Server have low FPS?

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  1. #1
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    Server have low FPS?

    Why does my server give low FPS?


    Before I did not have this problem, but now my server has low FPS.

    I played with a friend on the INFESTED map and the ms arrived at 400.

    My hardware PC
    8 GB RAM
    40 mb internet
    Processor: Intel Core 5 (3.1 ghz)
    Svencoop version: 5.14

    Please help

    I leave a video

  2. #2
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Known problem:

    https://forums.svencoop.com/showthre...-on-map-hl_c03

    Only fixes are to avoid maps with the problem, or decompile and remake the map to fix the problem with broken AI nodes.

  3. #3
    Mapper Nih's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    I think the main problem here is that you are rushing through the map and triggering all the monster spawns while leaving a lot of stragglers. There's a limit to how many active npcs the game can handle efficiently.

  4. #4
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    lol wtf. Your 'server' isn't showing low FPS, but your 'client' is (assuming if you are hosting it is a listen server).

    If your server dropped fps significantly then your ping would probably shoot up tooas it's likely having problems processing on cycles on time.

    For some reason SC doesn't really "look better" but it performs way worse than the other hl games & mods, probably for multiple reasons.

    You aren't listing a GPU so it's possible you are using integrated graphics chipset or something which will not only borderline run SC sometimes. It can run 'Half-Life' but not SC.

    Even my previous comp: 1090T CPU, 8GB DDR2 Ram, 1060GTX could run some 2017 titles but FPS/network in Sven Co-op were not really smooth all the time even though fps>100 usually. I upgraded for about 100$ and all my stuff is 2017+ now, which is irrelevant, but ya SC performance is pretty low considering its origins from a really well-known high performance engine from 90s with lag comp that could handle 200ms players.

    Not to say it's a bad thing, but an observation from years of on and off playing since SC 3.0 onward. I don't think they can or will fix it, not to be mean, but that's just whatit looks like.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Indeed, I really, really hope the Sven Dev's notice this serious ai flaw that causes massive lag for people/the server on certain maps and fix this in the next update!

    Thank you for the years of work on the mod!!

  6. #6
    Ultimate Monster Mapper amckern's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Its been noticed and an internal build has been in testing to check this out.

    Please wait for any news updates from AdamR or Sniper for when this will be pushed out.
    SC Kicks ass!

    My Maps - SC_28, SC_AVP, SC_AVP10, SC_Duno, SC_Max, Opposing Forts, SC_Massive, SC_Oni
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  7. #7
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Are you using Metamod?
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  8. #8
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    no use metamod

  9. #9
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    As Nih mentioned, this is expected, Metamod or not, if you rush through a map with godmode. You are triggering more and more enemies to spawn without killing the old ones. If playing on a listensever, the lag will be even worse for your clients.

  10. #10
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    rush or not its the same problema

  11. #11
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by cold_blood3d_killa View Post
    As Nih mentioned, this is expected, Metamod or not, if you rush through a map with godmode.
    Yes, it is an expected bug in the game that the developers still refuse to address. My first post in this thread has a link to the problem, and it's not what you or Nih stated it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by cold_blood3d_killa View Post
    You are triggering more and more enemies to spawn without killing the old ones.
    As of this writing, the maximum number of monsters the game can handle effectively is one. A single NPC using a broken navigation mesh can cause 100% CPU usage on the server, you don't need a couple of dozen NPCs to do this.

  12. #12
    Administrator Sniper's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Who said we're refusing to address the issue?

    When you make statements like that, you're saying that all of the developers don't care. Please stop that.
    - David "Sniper" McDermott
    Sven Co-op Lead Programmer
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  13. #13
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
    Who said we're refusing to address the issue?
    Because the devs do these things on a regular basis:

    1) Ignore bug threads.
    2) Downplay the significance of bugs.
    3) Blame others for bugs existing.
    4) Rarely even acknowledge a bug, and if it is acknowledged, even rarer is the public notified about it.
    5) Give snarky insulting responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
    When you make statements like that, you're saying that all of the developers don't care. Please stop that.
    What exactly are you doing that should change my mind that the developers do care?

    There are bugs that are years old that have been reported ad nauseum that have never been fixed, even after being acknowledged numerous times. The devs are more interested in ignoring what the community at large wants out of the game, and instead have their own agendas on what is done with the game.

    This behavior is defined by many as "not caring". "Busy with life issues" is not a valid excuse for this behavior anymore, there are plenty of people over the years who have expressed interest in working on the game, but been rejected. Manpower is not an issue, it's an artificial problem created by the devs themselves.

  14. #14
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    I've been observing these forums for years, Gigabite is right, you guys downplay bugs like your a corporation, get over yourselves, this is a video game.

    Is it so hard to just say "Yeah, this CPU issue is our fault, we fucked up, we will try to push out an update next month to address this issue, please post here again if we don't get to it to give us that little kick in the butt we need"

    Is that so hard for you devs to say that? inb4 thread is closed because people are saying what the truth is.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by amckern View Post
    Its been noticed and an internal build has been in testing to check this out.

    Please wait for any news updates from AdamR or Sniper for when this will be pushed out.
    thank you amckern
    Last edited by regretful; 19-12-2017 at 02:40 AM.

  15. #15
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Calm down kids.
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  16. #16
    Administrator Sniper's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by regretful View Post
    I've been observing these forums for years, Gigabite is right, you guys downplay bugs like your a corporation, get over yourselves, this is a video game.

    Is it so hard to just say "Yeah, this CPU issue is our fault, we fucked up, we will try to push out an update next month to address this issue, please post here again if we don't get to it to give us that little kick in the butt we need"

    Is that so hard for you devs to say that? inb4 thread is closed because people are saying what the truth is.

    edit:


    thank you amckern

    We all respond to messages when we can. I think we're all doing a pretty good job. We can't always respond with 1000 word essays explaining things in detail.

    As for the CPU issue, this is not a trivial thing. Fixes like these take time or may not be possible. There are many things that go into level design. In this case it's probably due to NPCs trying to find a route to the player. NPC placement and node layout can have a huge impact on performance and gameplay.

    We haven't made major changes to path finding for several releases, only bug fixes here and there. Most of the code is very similar to the v3.0 release.

    Instead of posting passive aggressive messages on the forums, you might want to try messaging us on the Discord chat also. We're always on there.

    Unfortunately for this, there isn't a specific bug posted here. It's a general "there seems to be something wrong with the game" and that's not exactly easy to fix.

    There are plans to work on overhauling the path finding which should provide performance benefits. We're not miracle workers though. This is the Half-Life engine and we're running with Half-Life 1's AI.
    - David "Sniper" McDermott
    Sven Co-op Lead Programmer
    "I mean it's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!"

  17. #17
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Yes, the Sven Co-op Team are solely responsible for performance issues that have existed since Half-Life's inception. For now, here's an easy temporary workaround: don't spawn over 30-50 NPCs at once.

    Actually, you could place as many NPCs as you want as long as you use the 'WaitTilSeen' flag, which forces their AI to be inactive until a player is in the area and 'sees' them for the first time (this is what They Hunger does). But you really, really shouldn't be rushing through a map and activating all of the NPCs.

  18. #18
    Mapper Nih's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post
    Because the devs do these things on a regular basis:

    1) Ignore bug threads.
    2) Downplay the significance of bugs.
    3) Blame others for bugs existing.
    4) Rarely even acknowledge a bug, and if it is acknowledged, even rarer is the public notified about it.
    5) Give snarky insulting responses.
    Please provide some examples of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiGaBiTe View Post

    This behavior is defined by many as "not caring". "Busy with life issues" is not a valid excuse for this behavior anymore, there are plenty of people over the years who have expressed interest in working on the game, but been rejected. Manpower is not an issue, it's an artificial problem created by the devs themselves.
    Who? (please don't list solokiller, i can't stand to hear any more about that whole debacle which happened over a year ago)

  19. #19
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    "Too many monsters" is not the problem. There's something wrong with the monster ai/navigation/wtv.

    If I set up my info_nodes correctly, I can handle 100+ roaming monsters with a minor fps drop. If I place the nodes too high, then my framerate is destroyed by just a handful of monsters. The cause should be easy to spot with a profiler.
    Love,
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  20. #20
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hover View Post
    rush or not its the same problema
    Quote Originally Posted by regretful View Post
    inb4 thread is closed because people are saying what the truth is.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    Calm down kids.
    >Thread gets closed by Adamr with a last, snarky comment.

    We NEED threads like this. Threads where people can be open about the problems of sven co-op and not get shut down!

    Now, I agree, over-dev-bashing, is not going to get us anywhere, but this anger against the devs does not come out of a vacuum. We know you all care about the mod, but we, the players, have seen free discussion consistently shut down when things get a little heated. The fact this thread got reopened by, presumably Sniper, is a miracle, +rep Sniper!


    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
    We all respond to messages when we can. I think we're all doing a pretty good job. We can't always respond with 1000 word essays explaining things in detail.

    As for the CPU issue, this is not a trivial thing. Fixes like these take time or may not be possible. There are many things that go into level design. In this case it's probably due to NPCs trying to find a route to the player. NPC placement and node layout can have a huge impact on performance and gameplay.

    We haven't made major changes to path finding for several releases, only bug fixes here and there. Most of the code is very similar to the v3.0 release.

    Instead of posting passive aggressive messages on the forums, you might want to try messaging us on the Discord chat also. We're always on there.

    Unfortunately for this, there isn't a specific bug posted here. It's a general "there seems to be something wrong with the game" and that's not exactly easy to fix.

    There are plans to work on overhauling the path finding which should provide performance benefits. We're not miracle workers though. This is the Half-Life engine and we're running with Half-Life 1's AI.
    Thank you for looking into the issue, we appreciate it very much, we do want to be kept in the loop. Maybe you could post more news updates between releases "We are working on this and that, and know this and that are still issues, thanks everyone for playing Sven Co-op and continuing to give us feedback! Alon Z!" I think Sven Co-op is in bad need of a PR person. There just seems to be such a clash between the devs and the players on many, many occasions, over the past 2 decades or so. Someone who could bridge the gap between Humanity and the Borg so to speak.

    As for the AI, I think you have done a magnificent job on making the monsters vastly more intelligent than Half-Life 1, good job! +Rep

    A lot of people still think the upgrades to the Alien Grunts are overly aggressive (old maps with alien grunts will dominate you) and even Alien Slaves will over-assault you at times (look at svencoop 1 with minimal players, they all regen each other constantly). Overall, I am pleased with the AI upgrades, and applaud you for doing a great job on the mod!

    Now that being said, I think maybe the players WOULD be ok with dumbing down some of the monsters. Headcrabs, Leechs, zombies, anything that was kinda dumb in the first place, this might even out some of the network lag. Just a theory.


    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    Yes, the Sven Co-op Team are solely responsible for performance issues that have existed since Half-Life's inception. For now, here's an easy temporary workaround: don't spawn over 30-50 NPCs at once.
    Please see w00tguy's post in this thread. Also, I think Sven Co-op's AI has been heavily modified since valve's, non-sequitur.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    Actually, you could place as many NPCs as you want as long as you use the 'WaitTilSeen' flag, which forces their AI to be inactive until a player is in the area and 'sees' them for the first time (this is what They Hunger does).
    See, this is extremely helpful information Thank You JPolito +REP

    Unfortunately that info isn't where it should be, under a Yellow titled thread "NPCS LAGGING YOUR MAPS, HERES SOME SOLUTIONS" Actually, that is this thread, luckily it was unlocked and you were able to leave that information for Level Designers such as myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    But you really, really shouldn't be rushing through a map and activating all of the NPCs.
    This is a non-sequitur, or a straw-man argument. Players will and do rush. They like Sven Co-op, they play the same map 100 times, they will rush. This is a fact. You cannot redesign all 3000+ Sven Co-op maps in existance (i do not trust the SCMDB number) without something like, a code change that would affect all the maps. That is up to YOU and your Developers to fix, and I trust you will, your an awesome team of go getters that have kept this mod alive and thriving for years and years to come I hope!

    Quote Originally Posted by w00tguy123 View Post
    "Too many monsters" is not the problem. There's something wrong with the monster ai/navigation/wtv.

    If I set up my info_nodes correctly, I can handle 100+ roaming monsters with a minor fps drop. If I place the nodes too high, then my framerate is destroyed by just a handful of monsters. The cause should be easy to spot with a profiler.
    ^^^^^^^^^
    Last edited by regretful; 20-12-2017 at 03:07 AM. Reason: spelling errors and such

  21. #21
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by regretful View Post
    >Thread gets closed by Adamr with a last, snarky comment.

    We NEED threads like this. Threads where people can be open about the problems of sven co-op and not get shut down!

    Now, I agree, over-dev-bashing, is not going to get us anywhere, but this anger against the devs does not come out of a vacuum. We know you all care about the mod, but we, the players, have seen free discussion consistently shut down when things get a little heated. The fact this thread got reopened by, presumably Sniper, is a miracle, +rep Sniper!
    Actually I re-opened it after Sniper made his comment so you could discuss his follow-up. I originally closed it as it was just becoming another dev-bashing thread as you described, which is good for nothing and nobody. It's a shame that it usually goes that way by familiar faces.

    You're right, dev bashing gets us nowhere. All you're doing is putting us in the mindset of "why do we even do anything at all for these people?" You're just creating the assumption that we owe you the world when in fact all we have done for 18 years is give and give more. Criticism is fine, but if you're just going to "dev bash" then you'll get little/nothing in return. Please think twice about how you talk to people that are working for free. (Would you do the same in our position? Most people wouldn't even for a wage let alone free.) -- We are people this side too after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by regretful View Post
    Thank you for looking into the issue, we appreciate it very much, we do want to be kept in the loop.
    That's splendid. If only you could show this more frequently with less aggression we could do this more often.
    Adam "Adambean" Reece
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  22. #22
    Administrator JPolito's Avatar  
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by regretful View Post
    This is a non-sequitur, or a straw-man argument. Players will and do rush. They like Sven Co-op, they play the same map 100 times, they will rush. This is a fact.
    What I'm seeing in the video is someone with godmode rushing through every single trigger in the map. Are you going to design maps to deal with this? Because I'm not, and no one else is.

  23. #23
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    Re: Server have low FPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    Actually I re-opened it after Sniper made his comment so you could discuss his follow-up. I originally closed it as it was just becoming another dev-bashing thread as you described, which is good for nothing and nobody. It's a shame that it usually goes that way by familiar faces.

    You're right, dev bashing gets us nowhere. All you're doing is putting us in the mindset of "why do we even do anything at all for these people?" You're just creating the assumption that we owe you the world when in fact all we have done for 18 years is give and give more. Criticism is fine, but if you're just going to "dev bash" then you'll get little/nothing in return. Please think twice about how you talk to people that are working for free. (Would you do the same in our position? Most people wouldn't even for a wage let alone free.) -- We are people this side too after all.



    That's splendid. If only you could show this more frequently with less aggression we could do this more often.
    I appreciate that you reopened the thread. Myself and others appreciate the opportunity to share ideas and report issues with the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPolito View Post
    What I'm seeing in the video is someone with godmode rushing through every single trigger in the map. Are you going to design maps to deal with this? Because I'm not, and no one else is.
    I will try.

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