Thread: Practical mapping limits (r_speeds etc)

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  1. #1
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    Practical mapping limits (r_speeds etc)

    Given Sven Co-op's standalone status, general progression in computing since Half-Life's release in 1998 and the custom variant of VHE and it's associated tools now available, what are the current thoughts on practical limits regarding r_speeds, w_polys, e_polys etc?

  2. #2
    Administrator Hezus's Avatar  
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    Re: Practical mapping limits (r_speeds etc)

    I've seen HL singple player mods with wpolies up to 8000, but I wouldn't recommend that for SC, since our engine version has pushed GoldSrc by a great deal, so it's a bit heavier than regular Half-Life. Next to that, you always have to factor in the extra players (epolies, effect, AI load) which can be a heavy strain on the engine too.

    Next to that, the engine uses a rather old rendering techique, which is still quite well supported on Nvidia cards but not so much on AMD or Intel boards. That's why you hear a lot of different stories when it comes to performance. Some people even report frame drops on 1500 wpolies, which is nothing compared to modern standards or expected from modern systems, but it's something we still have to take into account.

    Generally it's a trade-off between wpoly and epoly and these would be my recommendations for SC:

    wpoly epoly
    500 100,000
    750 75,000
    1000 50,000
    1250 25,000
    1500 10,000

    Personally, I like to keep my areas under 1000 wpoly, especially if they are going to be combat-heavy. I wouldn't push over 1500 unless I really want to go for a nice looking area which is just for the looks. It's fun to try to make something good looking for such an old engine, but you'll always lose against modern engines and most people here are in it for the gameplay anyhow.

    There's a bunch you can do to lower wpoly: check out this tut (bitching long read ahead)
    Last edited by Hezus; 08-07-2019 at 05:05 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Practical mapping limits (r_speeds etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hezus View Post
    I've seen HL singple player mods with wpolies up to 8000, but I wouldn't recommend that for SC, since our engine version has pushed GoldSrc by a great deal, so it's a bit heavier than regular Half-Life. Next to that, you always have to factor in the extra players (epolies, effect, AI load) which can be a heavy strain on the engine too.

    Next to that, the engine uses a rather old rendering techique, which is still quite well supported on Nvidia cards but not so much on AMD or Intel boards. That's why you hear a lot of different stories when it comes to performance. Some people even report frame drops on 1500 wpolies, which is nothing compared to modern standards or expected from modern systems, but it's something we still have to take into account.

    Generally it's a trade-off between wpoly and epoly and these would be my recommendations for SC:

    wpoly epoly
    500 100,000
    750 75,000
    1000 50,000
    1250 25,000
    1500 10,000

    Personally, I like to keep my areas under 1000 wpoly, especially if they are going to be combat-heavy. I wouldn't push over 1500 unless I really want to go for a nice looking area which is just for the looks. It's fun to try to make something good looking for such an old engine, but you'll always lose against modern engines and most people here are in it for the gameplay anyhow.

    There's a bunch you can do to lower wpoly: check out this tut (bitching long read ahead)
    Thanks for that, useful information and I'll be sure to read through the suggested tutorial. In terms of player models, do your suggested epoly limits include the players themselves or only actual elements of the map?

  4. #4
    Administrator Hezus's Avatar  
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    Re: Practical mapping limits (r_speeds etc)

    I would say those epoly values would be without the extra epolies from other players. Most default SC players models have around 2000-4000 epolies, with a few exceptions going up to 9000 (like the HEV Barney). Some of the older models mostly stay under 1000. There is still a chance people use custom models converted from other more modern games with 50.000 polies or more.. let's hope they don't come to your server

  5. #5
    Administrator AdamR's Avatar  
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    Re: Practical mapping limits (r_speeds etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hezus View Post
    There is still a chance people use custom models converted from other more modern games with 50.000 polies or more.. let's hope they don't come to your server
    That reminds me. We must look into giving players an option to exclude those downloads.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Practical mapping limits (r_speeds etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamR View Post
    That reminds me. We must look into giving players an option to exclude those downloads.
    Yes, add command: mp_forcepmodels "helmet;colette;gina;gordon"
    Patience is a virtue greatly needed by those who attempt great things.
    La patience est une vertu fort nécessaire à ceux qui tentent de réaliser de grandes choses.

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